Walang Sinudhuk

Mick · 16th May 2007, 06:32 PM

Marco

We have had this topic on the Forum before, but the pictures have been dropped from the archives. Battara put the photos up so he may still have them and put them up again. Or maybe he knows who has the piece now and that person can put them up. If I remember correctly this was a very good representation of that pamor.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000533.html

If you have a copy of Tammens “De Kris 2” there is a good illustration on page 156.

Jeff Pringle · 16th May 2007, 06:36 PM

Scroll to bottom, keris on right? or is that the photo you already ran across?

http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris1/blade.html

Mick · 16th May 2007, 07:02 PM

No Jeff

Battara's example was much better that that one. It was almost as distinct as the drawing in Tammen's book.

Marcokeris · 17th May 2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Pringle

Scroll to bottom, keris on right? or is that the photo you already ran across?

http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris1/blade.html

Sorry Jeff: this pamor is Lar Gansir or G.kaniut or K. kinubah

Marcokeris · 17th May 2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick

Marco

We have had this topic on the Forum before, but the pictures have been dropped from the archives. Battara put the photos up so he may still have them and put them up again. Or maybe he knows who has the piece now and that person can put them up. If I remember correctly this was a very good representation of that pamor.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000533.html

If you have a copy of Tammens “De Kris 2” there is a good illustration on page 156.

Sorry Mick but i have seen in other different books also some others pictures (never a photo) of W. Sinudhuk pamor: well! ...but they are all different!!!
Maybe the picture in beautiful book "Keris Jawa" is the right pamor..... but i would like to see a photo.

Mick · 17th May 2007, 04:27 PM

Marco

I may be getting a bit old, but I just leafed through "Keris Jawa" and did not see a sample of the pamor under discussion.

The illustration in Tammens is:

Mick · 17th May 2007, 04:34 PM

Marco

To continue (I can't figure out how to continue in the same post after adding the illustration), the photograph that Battara placed was a picture of a blade that he has held in his hand that was almost a dead ringer of this illustration.

That is if I remember it correctly. Battara where are you??

I have never seen a blade with this pamor.

ganjawulung · 17th May 2007, 05:14 PM

Dear All,

Would you mind if I send the illustration of Pamor Walang Sinudukan according to Mr Haryono Haryoguritno's "Keris Jawa, Antara Mistik dan Nalar"? Hopefully this illustration (page 208) will help you...

Ganjawulung

Mans · 17th May 2007, 06:40 PM

Hello dear all keris lovers,
Sugeng enjang Mas Cahya...

Just want to give my humble opinion regarding pamor Walang Sinuduk although me my self didn't have the keris with pamor Walang Sinuduk yet

Walang, in Jawanese term mean grasshopper or locust. Sinuduk (from source word "Suduk") mean skewer / to stick (hard to translate into English

). So, Walang Sinuduk mean the grasshopper which skewered with a stick.

Walang known as plant disease for farmer (Jawanese people known as agriculture societies). So, Walang Sinuduk has deep meaning that if we need to avoid the plant disease, so we must wipe the Walang at field (wet rice field). And if we can do that, we will get much appreciation or respect from communities of farmers. So that why this pamor believed that it can bring the owner to have more authorities/power --(which gave from communities).

Indeed that many book had illustrated the form of this pamor. but every book gave different illustrations of each other. So, which the illustraton nearest with the from of this pamor as it was

I think the form of this pamor should be similiar with the grasshopper which skewered.

Here I posted another illustrations from book "Pamor Keris" by Bambang Harsrinuksmo.
Also the keris collection of Mr. Budi Warsonugroho :
http://kerisbw.fotopic.net/c589653.html
http://kerisbw.fotopic.net/p16631016.html
nyuwun duko saderengipun Pak Budi, dhuwung panjenengan dalem agem contoh

Well, thats just my humble opinion

Salaam,
Manshur Hidayat

Mick · 17th May 2007, 09:23 PM

ganjawulung

Glad you put my nose on the right page. I must have had an "old moment" while leafing through the book. I remember the page but did not pick up on the pamor statement. This is possibly the best representation of this type of pamor around.

Marco

The representations of examples in "Keris Jawa" were taken from actual blades that were in Haryono's hands at one time or another. So this is about as near as you are going to get to a blade in hand.

Newsteel · 18th May 2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mans

Indeed that many book had illustrated the form of this pamor. but every book gave different illustrations of each other. So, which the illustraton nearest with the from of this pamor as it was

Bapak Hidayat,
I had the same thinking too after viewing all the pictures. All illustration differs. So do we choose to believe one pamor that look like a skewed locust??

17th May 2007, 04:27 PM	#6
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Marco I may be getting a bit old, but I just leafed through "Keris Jawa" and did not see a sample of the pamor under discussion. The illustration in Tammens is: Attached Images

17th May 2007, 05:14 PM	#8
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Pamor Walang Sinudukan Dear All, Would you mind if I send the illustration of Pamor Walang Sinudukan according to Mr Haryono Haryoguritno's "Keris Jawa, Antara Mistik dan Nalar"? Hopefully this illustration (page 208) will help you... Ganjawulung Attached Images

17th May 2007, 06:40 PM	#9
Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: East Java Posts: 137	Hello dear all keris lovers, Sugeng enjang Mas Cahya... Just want to give my humble opinion regarding pamor Walang Sinuduk although me my self didn't have the keris with pamor Walang Sinuduk yet Walang, in Jawanese term mean grasshopper or locust. Sinuduk (from source word "Suduk") mean skewer / to stick (hard to translate into English ). So, Walang Sinuduk mean the grasshopper which skewered with a stick. Walang known as plant disease for farmer (Jawanese people known as agriculture societies). So, Walang Sinuduk has deep meaning that if we need to avoid the plant disease, so we must wipe the Walang at field (wet rice field). And if we can do that, we will get much appreciation or respect from communities of farmers. So that why this pamor believed that it can bring the owner to have more authorities/power --(which gave from communities). Indeed that many book had illustrated the form of this pamor. but every book gave different illustrations of each other. So, which the illustraton nearest with the from of this pamor as it was I think the form of this pamor should be similiar with the grasshopper which skewered. Here I posted another illustrations from book "Pamor Keris" by Bambang Harsrinuksmo. Also the keris collection of Mr. Budi Warsonugroho : http://kerisbw.fotopic.net/c589653.html http://kerisbw.fotopic.net/p16631016.html nyuwun duko saderengipun Pak Budi, dhuwung panjenengan dalem agem contoh Well, thats just my humble opinion Salaam, Manshur Hidayat Attached Images

16th May 2007, 06:32 PM	#1
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Marco We have had this topic on the Forum before, but the pictures have been dropped from the archives. Battara put the photos up so he may still have them and put them up again. Or maybe he knows who has the piece now and that person can put them up. If I remember correctly this was a very good representation of that pamor. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000533.html If you have a copy of Tammens “De Kris 2” there is a good illustration on page 156.

16th May 2007, 06:36 PM	#2
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Scroll to bottom, keris on right? or is that the photo you already ran across? http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/keris1/blade.html

16th May 2007, 07:02 PM	#3
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	No Jeff Battara's example was much better that that one. It was almost as distinct as the drawing in Tammen's book.

17th May 2007, 04:34 PM	#7
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Marco To continue (I can't figure out how to continue in the same post after adding the illustration), the photograph that Battara placed was a picture of a blade that he has held in his hand that was almost a dead ringer of this illustration. That is if I remember it correctly. Battara where are you?? I have never seen a blade with this pamor.

17th May 2007, 09:23 PM	#10
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	ganjawulung Glad you put my nose on the right page. I must have had an "old moment" while leafing through the book. I remember the page but did not pick up on the pamor statement. This is possibly the best representation of this type of pamor around. Marco The representations of examples in "Keris Jawa" were taken from actual blades that were in Haryono's hands at one time or another. So this is about as near as you are going to get to a blade in hand.