keris and spirit

David · 11th May 2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate.

I would think that a magnet might be helpful with this problem.

Raden Usman Djogja · 11th May 2007, 08:39 PM

Alan, thank you.

When I asked young smith Sungkowo whether there is different between keris used meteorite pamor and nickel pamor regarding with its strength of "power". He answered "most probably, yes, there is."

Then the interesting thing is we can not be able to differentiate visually it (based on your valid test).

Another story:
Longtime ago, I have discussed with someone about the spirit of keris. In his opinion, there is a bad category of keris, eventhough, according to pakem, every aspect of that keris is excelent. This kind of keris is a burnt keris. For example, if we find a keris amongst debris of a house burned down, that keris is not a good one. According to his explanation, that keris has already lost its power. Have you heard about stories similiar as it is?

Another example, he picked out Kraton Solo case. In 1980s (?), parts of Keraton burned down. Some people said they found kerises amongst debris. Those kerises, even very beautiful court ones, were classified as powerless pusaka. Why? Because already burnt

As teenager at that time, I had high curiousity to challenge his opinion by provoking that I still beleived those kerises still have giant powers. He defended succinctly his opinion, "If still having giant power, so why was the Keraton burned".

Okay... time is out. Now your turn to tell a fairytail

Usman

t_c · 13th May 2007, 03:16 AM

This isn't about an Indonesian keris, but rather a Moro kris, but I think it's relevant to your disscusion on blades and spirits.

I haven't told too many people about my experience with this kris, it was a little strange and I was never sure what people would think. One summer I was fortunate enought to visit Madrid and go to the Museo del Ejército (it's a military museum near the Museo del Prado). They have a great collection of old Phillipine weapons. I was looking at one of the krises (no scabbard) in a display case and it started to "rattle" a little bit, just kinda shake or vibrate on it's long axis. I thought it was a little weird and tried not to get excited. I was raised by a structural engineer who installed in me the virtues of the western scientific method, and taught me to always look for the rational explaination for things. With that bearing, I decided to leave the keris and walk around a little more and then come back and see if it would do it again. I did this, and again it "rattled". It was shaking as if you were to bang lightly on the shelf with which it was laying, but nothing else was moving. The rattling didn't last too long on either occassion, a few seconds or so. It stopped and I left the display, but I never could it figure out, but it really seemed as though it had moved on it's own. There may be a "western scientific" answer, or perhaps there was something more to the piece. I do my best to keep an open mind regarding any possible explaination.

For me personally, I know we live in a modern world governed by logic and science (I'm a CAD tech by trade). On the whole, that is the direction my culture (USA) has taken, but it seems there are still some things that science doesn't have an explaination or catagory for (I have witnessed a professed medium resist fire). So take this event/encounter as you will. Mabye it was vibrations in the building that rattled just this piece because it lay on a pivot, or mabye it was saying hi. I don't know.

I would be interested if anyone is aware of any spiritual practices regarding the smithing of blades in Sulu or the Philippines (I know, that's a post for the General Forum).

Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it's allowed me to take a wider view of my own. So hey, mabye I'm not crazy after all and the thing really did move on it's own!

David · 13th May 2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t_c

I would be interested if anyone is aware of any spiritual practices regarding the smithing of blades in Sulu or the Philippines (I know, that's a post for the General Forum).
Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it's allowed me to take a wider view of my own. So hey, mabye I'm not crazy after all and the thing really did move on it's own!

Hi TC. You are right, discussion of Moro kris should take place in the General Forum, though i do appreciate your shared experience here. There are, indeed, spiritual practices associated with these blades, though sorting them out often seems even more difficult that with the Indo keris.
I certainly do not doubt your exprience, though even i, with much experience with the metaphysical, would be more inclined to attribute this to a building vibration first. But who know, eh?

Please feel free to start up a similar thread in the General Forum on your experience. I would be interested in the responses there.

BluErf · 13th May 2007, 02:37 PM

I have always enjoyed reading about the non-material aspect of kerises, though somehow, I just can't remember much of them to retell them to others.

On the vibration of the kris from time-to-time, I can't help but recall a particular meeting room in the building that I work in. The window panes would rattle whenever a truck drives by. Many a visitor would ask - "Was that an earthquake?".

I guess the meeting room was situated at the exact spot where vibrations converge.

David · 13th May 2007, 02:56 PM

Conduits of vibration can be very peculiar sometimes...

Again, i don't mean to discount the metaphysical, but i also think it is very important to look at all the possible natural phenomenon possibilities first. There are many and they are not always so obvious.

Raden Usman Djogja · 13th May 2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

i also think it is very important to look at all the possible natural phenomenon possibilities first.

I agree with David.

However, sometimes, not to make simplification is a wise way. If we face two situation in the same time which each one is very logic, it is up to our willingness to relate or unrelate those phenomenon.

For example, yesterday, someone got promotion. It was logic because he was a harworker and had been working very weel. Yesterday, he got telephone from Keris smith informing that his commissioned keris had been finished. It was logic because he commissioned a Keris 2 two year ago and, at that time, the smith had had promised that the Keris would be finished 2 year later.

Then, it is free choice for him to think whether it is a sign or not regarding with the "power" of his new Keris.

lelang69 · 22nd June 2007, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Again, i don't mean to discount the metaphysical, but i also think it is very important to look at all the possible natural phenomenon possibilities first.

keris.. keris siapa mau beli keris 50% diskon abis nggak pakai perewangan ( keris keris for sale and discount 50% without Methaphysical power). What's a pity keris in southeast asia. is it an aeng tong tong Touris keris or real keris ?

I agree with david we should be look at the natural phenomenon possibility . But David , I suggest you should be put the natural aspects in number 100 after Methaphysical power in the first place when you are talking about keris with Indonesia or it's neigbouring country. if you don't you must be KUALAT SANTET (methapysical illness).

for Indonesian and it's neigbouring country, a millions Rupiahs ($ 100.000)keris will turn to be 50 tousands rupiahs keris ($ 40s) when they completly do not own methaphysical power.

we should aware as keris lover , keris Empus provide methaphysical, phylosophy aspect in every keris they create
and the Aeng tong tong Keris Smith provide the beauty and mass commodity for the tourist.

This is the reality condition in the world of keris lover In Indonesia and it's neigbouring country,

isn't it Pak Raden usman, pak ganjawulung Leres nggeh!, cik alam Syah bersetuju kah!

11th May 2007, 08:39 PM	#2
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Alan, thank you. When I asked young smith Sungkowo whether there is different between keris used meteorite pamor and nickel pamor regarding with its strength of "power". He answered "most probably, yes, there is." Then the interesting thing is we can not be able to differentiate visually it (based on your valid test). Another story: Longtime ago, I have discussed with someone about the spirit of keris. In his opinion, there is a bad category of keris, eventhough, according to pakem, every aspect of that keris is excelent. This kind of keris is a burnt keris. For example, if we find a keris amongst debris of a house burned down, that keris is not a good one. According to his explanation, that keris has already lost its power. Have you heard about stories similiar as it is? Another example, he picked out Kraton Solo case. In 1980s (?), parts of Keraton burned down. Some people said they found kerises amongst debris. Those kerises, even very beautiful court ones, were classified as powerless pusaka. Why? Because already burnt As teenager at that time, I had high curiousity to challenge his opinion by provoking that I still beleived those kerises still have giant powers. He defended succinctly his opinion, "If still having giant power, so why was the Keraton burned". Okay... time is out. Now your turn to tell a fairytail Usman

13th May 2007, 03:16 AM	#3
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	This isn't about an Indonesian keris, but rather a Moro kris, but I think it's relevant to your disscusion on blades and spirits. I haven't told too many people about my experience with this kris, it was a little strange and I was never sure what people would think. One summer I was fortunate enought to visit Madrid and go to the Museo del Ejército (it's a military museum near the Museo del Prado). They have a great collection of old Phillipine weapons. I was looking at one of the krises (no scabbard) in a display case and it started to "rattle" a little bit, just kinda shake or vibrate on it's long axis. I thought it was a little weird and tried not to get excited. I was raised by a structural engineer who installed in me the virtues of the western scientific method, and taught me to always look for the rational explaination for things. With that bearing, I decided to leave the keris and walk around a little more and then come back and see if it would do it again. I did this, and again it "rattled". It was shaking as if you were to bang lightly on the shelf with which it was laying, but nothing else was moving. The rattling didn't last too long on either occassion, a few seconds or so. It stopped and I left the display, but I never could it figure out, but it really seemed as though it had moved on it's own. There may be a "western scientific" answer, or perhaps there was something more to the piece. I do my best to keep an open mind regarding any possible explaination. For me personally, I know we live in a modern world governed by logic and science (I'm a CAD tech by trade). On the whole, that is the direction my culture (USA) has taken, but it seems there are still some things that science doesn't have an explaination or catagory for (I have witnessed a professed medium resist fire). So take this event/encounter as you will. Mabye it was vibrations in the building that rattled just this piece because it lay on a pivot, or mabye it was saying hi. I don't know. I would be interested if anyone is aware of any spiritual practices regarding the smithing of blades in Sulu or the Philippines (I know, that's a post for the General Forum). Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it's allowed me to take a wider view of my own. So hey, mabye I'm not crazy after all and the thing really did move on it's own!

13th May 2007, 02:37 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I have always enjoyed reading about the non-material aspect of kerises, though somehow, I just can't remember much of them to retell them to others. On the vibration of the kris from time-to-time, I can't help but recall a particular meeting room in the building that I work in. The window panes would rattle whenever a truck drives by. Many a visitor would ask - "Was that an earthquake?". I guess the meeting room was situated at the exact spot where vibrations converge.

13th May 2007, 02:56 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Conduits of vibration can be very peculiar sometimes... Again, i don't mean to discount the metaphysical, but i also think it is very important to look at all the possible natural phenomenon possibilities first. There are many and they are not always so obvious.