keris and spirit

Raden Usman Djogja · 10th May 2007, 06:45 PM

David

wow... thank you for helping me. Now, I can open 2 personal messages. Hopefully, soon I can upload photos.

I plan to take picture this weekend, either saturday or sunday and send on monday. Here, too many times, internetline has troble during weekend. I dont know why accessing internet in the office much faster than at home. Hmm... I am just a blind user.

one more time, thank you David

Usman

Raden Usman Djogja · 10th May 2007, 08:26 PM

dear all krislovers,

Thank God, fortunately, now, I still leave Kiai Gundolobajang in my officeroom. Hmm... sometimes, I bring one of my "Wesi Aji" (whats translation in English? help me please) to the office. During lunchbreak, I watch it, especially, whenever I feel homesick.

Yupe, I just took picture and uploaded it

Okay, I open to hear your comments, guys.

Additional information (if I am not mistaken): shape tilam upih, period pajajaran.

Usman

A. G. Maisey · 10th May 2007, 10:42 PM

Raden, I'm sorry, but I know absolutely nothing about meteorites. The meteoritic material I used came from a very big, well known American meteorite---Arizona or Colorado or somewhere like that. It was a lot of very small pieces, and it was very, very expensive, I think much more expensive than this stuff is now, as with meteoritic material , the market seems to have opened up.

My understanding of the current situation is that there is presently no problem at all in getting whatever one may need in the way of meteoritic material.

Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate.

I did remark previously that it would be quite improbable that any Javanese maker could weld pure meteorite. I've thought about what I said there, and I'm probably wrong. If a large enough piece of material were to be supplied , and the maker understood that he needed to work very softly in the initial stages, it could probably be brought together into a useable ingot of pure material.

David · 11th May 2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate.

I would think that a magnet might be helpful with this problem.

Raden Usman Djogja · 11th May 2007, 08:39 PM

Alan, thank you.

When I asked young smith Sungkowo whether there is different between keris used meteorite pamor and nickel pamor regarding with its strength of "power". He answered "most probably, yes, there is."

Then the interesting thing is we can not be able to differentiate visually it (based on your valid test).

Another story:
Longtime ago, I have discussed with someone about the spirit of keris. In his opinion, there is a bad category of keris, eventhough, according to pakem, every aspect of that keris is excelent. This kind of keris is a burnt keris. For example, if we find a keris amongst debris of a house burned down, that keris is not a good one. According to his explanation, that keris has already lost its power. Have you heard about stories similiar as it is?

Another example, he picked out Kraton Solo case. In 1980s (?), parts of Keraton burned down. Some people said they found kerises amongst debris. Those kerises, even very beautiful court ones, were classified as powerless pusaka. Why? Because already burnt

As teenager at that time, I had high curiousity to challenge his opinion by provoking that I still beleived those kerises still have giant powers. He defended succinctly his opinion, "If still having giant power, so why was the Keraton burned".

Okay... time is out. Now your turn to tell a fairytail

Usman

t_c · 13th May 2007, 03:16 AM

This isn't about an Indonesian keris, but rather a Moro kris, but I think it's relevant to your disscusion on blades and spirits.

I haven't told too many people about my experience with this kris, it was a little strange and I was never sure what people would think. One summer I was fortunate enought to visit Madrid and go to the Museo del Ejército (it's a military museum near the Museo del Prado). They have a great collection of old Phillipine weapons. I was looking at one of the krises (no scabbard) in a display case and it started to "rattle" a little bit, just kinda shake or vibrate on it's long axis. I thought it was a little weird and tried not to get excited. I was raised by a structural engineer who installed in me the virtues of the western scientific method, and taught me to always look for the rational explaination for things. With that bearing, I decided to leave the keris and walk around a little more and then come back and see if it would do it again. I did this, and again it "rattled". It was shaking as if you were to bang lightly on the shelf with which it was laying, but nothing else was moving. The rattling didn't last too long on either occassion, a few seconds or so. It stopped and I left the display, but I never could it figure out, but it really seemed as though it had moved on it's own. There may be a "western scientific" answer, or perhaps there was something more to the piece. I do my best to keep an open mind regarding any possible explaination.

For me personally, I know we live in a modern world governed by logic and science (I'm a CAD tech by trade). On the whole, that is the direction my culture (USA) has taken, but it seems there are still some things that science doesn't have an explaination or catagory for (I have witnessed a professed medium resist fire). So take this event/encounter as you will. Mabye it was vibrations in the building that rattled just this piece because it lay on a pivot, or mabye it was saying hi. I don't know.

I would be interested if anyone is aware of any spiritual practices regarding the smithing of blades in Sulu or the Philippines (I know, that's a post for the General Forum).

Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it's allowed me to take a wider view of my own. So hey, mabye I'm not crazy after all and the thing really did move on it's own!

David · 13th May 2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t_c

I would be interested if anyone is aware of any spiritual practices regarding the smithing of blades in Sulu or the Philippines (I know, that's a post for the General Forum).
Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it's allowed me to take a wider view of my own. So hey, mabye I'm not crazy after all and the thing really did move on it's own!

Hi TC. You are right, discussion of Moro kris should take place in the General Forum, though i do appreciate your shared experience here. There are, indeed, spiritual practices associated with these blades, though sorting them out often seems even more difficult that with the Indo keris.
I certainly do not doubt your exprience, though even i, with much experience with the metaphysical, would be more inclined to attribute this to a building vibration first. But who know, eh?

Please feel free to start up a similar thread in the General Forum on your experience. I would be interested in the responses there.

10th May 2007, 08:26 PM	#2
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	dear all krislovers, Thank God, fortunately, now, I still leave Kiai Gundolobajang in my officeroom. Hmm... sometimes, I bring one of my "Wesi Aji" (whats translation in English? help me please) to the office. During lunchbreak, I watch it, especially, whenever I feel homesick. Yupe, I just took picture and uploaded it Okay, I open to hear your comments, guys. Additional information (if I am not mistaken): shape tilam upih, period pajajaran. Usman Attached Images

10th May 2007, 06:45 PM	#1
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	David wow... thank you for helping me. Now, I can open 2 personal messages. Hopefully, soon I can upload photos. I plan to take picture this weekend, either saturday or sunday and send on monday. Here, too many times, internetline has troble during weekend. I dont know why accessing internet in the office much faster than at home. Hmm... I am just a blind user. one more time, thank you David Usman

10th May 2007, 10:42 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Raden, I'm sorry, but I know absolutely nothing about meteorites. The meteoritic material I used came from a very big, well known American meteorite---Arizona or Colorado or somewhere like that. It was a lot of very small pieces, and it was very, very expensive, I think much more expensive than this stuff is now, as with meteoritic material , the market seems to have opened up. My understanding of the current situation is that there is presently no problem at all in getting whatever one may need in the way of meteoritic material. Once the inside of the meteorite is revealed it is easy to see if it is stone or metal, but looking at the outside I wouldn't have the vaguest idea of how to differentiate. I did remark previously that it would be quite improbable that any Javanese maker could weld pure meteorite. I've thought about what I said there, and I'm probably wrong. If a large enough piece of material were to be supplied , and the maker understood that he needed to work very softly in the initial stages, it could probably be brought together into a useable ingot of pure material.

11th May 2007, 08:39 PM	#5
Raden Usman Djogja Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 199	Alan, thank you. When I asked young smith Sungkowo whether there is different between keris used meteorite pamor and nickel pamor regarding with its strength of "power". He answered "most probably, yes, there is." Then the interesting thing is we can not be able to differentiate visually it (based on your valid test). Another story: Longtime ago, I have discussed with someone about the spirit of keris. In his opinion, there is a bad category of keris, eventhough, according to pakem, every aspect of that keris is excelent. This kind of keris is a burnt keris. For example, if we find a keris amongst debris of a house burned down, that keris is not a good one. According to his explanation, that keris has already lost its power. Have you heard about stories similiar as it is? Another example, he picked out Kraton Solo case. In 1980s (?), parts of Keraton burned down. Some people said they found kerises amongst debris. Those kerises, even very beautiful court ones, were classified as powerless pusaka. Why? Because already burnt As teenager at that time, I had high curiousity to challenge his opinion by provoking that I still beleived those kerises still have giant powers. He defended succinctly his opinion, "If still having giant power, so why was the Keraton burned". Okay... time is out. Now your turn to tell a fairytail Usman

13th May 2007, 03:16 AM	#6
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	This isn't about an Indonesian keris, but rather a Moro kris, but I think it's relevant to your disscusion on blades and spirits. I haven't told too many people about my experience with this kris, it was a little strange and I was never sure what people would think. One summer I was fortunate enought to visit Madrid and go to the Museo del Ejército (it's a military museum near the Museo del Prado). They have a great collection of old Phillipine weapons. I was looking at one of the krises (no scabbard) in a display case and it started to "rattle" a little bit, just kinda shake or vibrate on it's long axis. I thought it was a little weird and tried not to get excited. I was raised by a structural engineer who installed in me the virtues of the western scientific method, and taught me to always look for the rational explaination for things. With that bearing, I decided to leave the keris and walk around a little more and then come back and see if it would do it again. I did this, and again it "rattled". It was shaking as if you were to bang lightly on the shelf with which it was laying, but nothing else was moving. The rattling didn't last too long on either occassion, a few seconds or so. It stopped and I left the display, but I never could it figure out, but it really seemed as though it had moved on it's own. There may be a "western scientific" answer, or perhaps there was something more to the piece. I do my best to keep an open mind regarding any possible explaination. For me personally, I know we live in a modern world governed by logic and science (I'm a CAD tech by trade). On the whole, that is the direction my culture (USA) has taken, but it seems there are still some things that science doesn't have an explaination or catagory for (I have witnessed a professed medium resist fire). So take this event/encounter as you will. Mabye it was vibrations in the building that rattled just this piece because it lay on a pivot, or mabye it was saying hi. I don't know. I would be interested if anyone is aware of any spiritual practices regarding the smithing of blades in Sulu or the Philippines (I know, that's a post for the General Forum). Thank you all for sharing your experiences, it's allowed me to take a wider view of my own. So hey, mabye I'm not crazy after all and the thing really did move on it's own!