Beautiful Pendray knife as well as the price!!

Gt Obach · 2nd May 2007, 03:36 PM

honestly

when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom...

and now you can get them for a song and a dance

not that i'm defending pendray... but he was the pres of the american blade smith assoc. at one time....

G

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 03:49 PM

I wonder what Antonio thinks about this matter...

Andrew · 2nd May 2007, 03:59 PM

Personally, I love the fact modern smiths are continuing the art and traditions of the past. The Pendray blade that started this thread is an excellent example, and one I'd be proud to own.

I, myself, have several modern interpretations of my favorite weapons, and every single one is a work of art. None were inexpensive, and all cost more than I've paid for nearly any antique. I was happy to pay the price for the quality of workmanship in every instance.

Any attempt to compare the "worth" or "value" of antiques to their modern counterparts will fail. You may as well attempt to compare modern hand-crafted furniture to antique furniture.

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 04:05 PM

Not to talk about modern-made swords/furnitures that are made in the same traditional way as the ancient ones making no break in the tradition.
A large part of japanese antiques are cheap junk in front of works by very
talented japanese modern makers.
Sometimes even western makers surpass lower lever antique ones.
I wonder how much this apply to other cultures as well...

Andrew · 2nd May 2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

Not to talk about modern-made swords/furnitures that are made in the same traditional way as the ancient ones making no break in the tradition.
A large part of japanese antiques are cheap junk in front of works by very
talented japanese modern makers.
Sometimes even werstern makers surpass lower lever antique ones.
I wonder how much this apply to other cultures as well...

I agree completely: some of my antiques are junk.

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

I agree completely: some of my antiques are junk.

My first blade wasn't worthy even of the costs of the restoration...

Antonio Cejunior · 5th May 2007, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

I wonder what Antonio thinks about this matter...

I'm flattered to suddenly see my name here, Marco.
I'm no authority on Russian art and won't claim authority on anything

IMO, however, I do have my personal taste reservations on overly decorated art pieces such as Fabergé Eggs

and cloisonée work

as I think that they belong to a very specific expression that is not to my personal taste.

Presently there is an exhibition at the Museum, called Edictus Ridiculumby a friend, Russian artist Konstantin Bessmertny which is a fantastic example of irony and criticism on the world of Gambling, the Kitsch of getting Pharaohs, Zeus sculptures on a city dominated by Casinos which inevitably do refer to the theatrical and the ridiculous. I wish you guys could see this fantastic exhibition for what it represents. He is a 20th ~21st century Bosch or Breughel.

The entire exhibition is an installation which poses us the question of what is taste and what is the excess of it.

So I will not comment on the piece specifically as it is someone else's work.

tsubame1 · 5th May 2007, 04:58 PM

Hi Antonio. Honestly I was referring to the belittling of
modern made artworks that was too strong in the replies (IMHO),
and not suggesting you're for the overdecorated ones.
I know your taste is quiet far from "Barocco Siciliano",
as is mine...

Rick · 5th May 2007, 10:16 PM

Hi Carlo,
Those stones are Garnets; were they quality rubies it would be worth the price for the stones alone .

I chipped this raw Garnet out of a quartz boulder here in New England.

Antonio Cejunior · 5th May 2007, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsubame1

Hi Antonio. Honestly I was referring to the belittling of
modern made artworks that was too strong in the replies (IMHO),
and not suggesting you're for the overdecorated ones.
I know your taste is quiet far from "Barocco Siciliano",
as is mine...

Hi Marco,

I'm sorry if I did not get it.
I think some replies extrapolate from your original post.

It is a risk.

Lew · 2nd May 2007, 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=Gt Obach]honestly

when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom...

and now you can get them for a song and a dance

Gt

I really don't think they would have cost a kingdom for a dagger maybe a horse or something like that. At the last Timonium seminar there was discussion about how much it would cost to supply a warrior in the Polish army during the 16th or 17th century the cost of a good sword was not that expensive. I have heard that during viking times a good sword was worth the equivalent of $25,000 but that was before good steel was available in larger quantities. It is amazing that when you see some modern makers asking $1200 for a small hunting knife and these guys claim they have some super heat treatment which they claim can make 5,000 cuts in a piece of rope before becoming dull. It's all hype and there are a lot of gullible people out there willing to empty their pockets to buy one. I have been there and done that and that is why I now only collect Antique weapons. Pendray is a great guy and he does not think that one needs to charge an arm and a leg for a knife you can buy a wootz dagger from him for about what you would pay for an antique one. Btw the funniest thing I ever saw was was when at an ABS cutting competition I saw big burly men trying to cut through the wooden dowl of a toilet plunger to prove how good there expensive bowie knives were

you never know when a plunger will jump out from behind a tree and attack you in the woods so you better have one of these knives at your side

Lew

Gt Obach · 2nd May 2007, 04:59 PM

i agree but a horse was still very valuable.. and the daggers must have been aswell

there will alway be hype with blades... just seems to go with the territory..
but the abs does have standards and you should get a decent knife from one of their js or ms smiths....

decent knife for normal situations... excluding fierce plunger attacks, ofcourse

G

ALEX · 2nd May 2007, 05:12 PM

Agree with Lew.
The first expensive modern knife I bought based on "Virtually Undestructible" claims and DVD commercial was a Cold Steel tanto knife. I took it to the jungle and tried to open a coconut. The blade tip snapped without even applying a pressure. Yet you see guys piercing a car hood with it in the commercial. So now I have a $40 good old knife, and it never fails. However, the point is only in QUALITY. It is not fair to compare a bad antique with good modern (and vice versa). Similarly, it is not fair to disrespect the antique artist by comparing the product made with and without ANY modern technology.

Lew · 2nd May 2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Agree with Lew.
It is not fair to compare a bad antique with good modern (and vice versa). Similarly, it is not fair to disrespect the antique artist by comparing the product made with and without ANY modern technology.

Alex

Years ago a famous bladesmith referred to the stuff we collect as tribal junk which I thought was quite snobbish.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 2nd May 2007, 06:01 PM

Snobbish

more like blind ignorance, I wish there were more like him these days

tsubame1 · 2nd May 2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Alex

Years ago a famous bladesmith referred to the stuff we collect as tribal junk which I thought was quite snobbish.

Lew

It can even be understood as a racist quote... "tribal junk"...

Anyway, on other fora I'm renown to be "traditionally minded"

but
honestly age is *not* a warranty of quality. Of course you can't expect
from a modern made sword the same feeling an antique (even a junk one)
has, but it's not fair, IMHO to completely put down modern made works.
The one that started this thread seems to me an excellent work, but to
make judgment about the price or the historical/cultural accuracy is
beyond my knowledge.

Gt Obach · 2nd May 2007, 10:05 PM

cold steel sells production knives... .. same idea as the walmart type knives... which some people seem to prefer... ( maybe for the economy, or stainless nature... and that all the good i could possibly say about that )
- they are completely different from a custom knife..

i still maintain that the ancient blades that are bought now ...are usually at unbeatable prices...not at all compared to the old days.. if you were to pay the equivalent now a days... ha ha

... so with that in mind, you are usually getting an acceptable price for some of the decent custom knives being made today...

G

ps... as you can see with the dha that Jesus made.... !

Andrew · 2nd May 2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gt Obach

ps... as you can see with the dha that Jesus made.... !

Got pics?

2nd May 2007, 04:05 PM	#4
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	Not to talk about modern-made swords/furnitures that are made in the same traditional way as the ancient ones making no break in the tradition. A large part of japanese antiques are cheap junk in front of works by very talented japanese modern makers. Sometimes even western makers surpass lower lever antique ones. I wonder how much this apply to other cultures as well... Last edited by tsubame1; 2nd May 2007 at 06:41 PM.

5th May 2007, 10:16 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi Carlo, Those stones are Garnets; were they quality rubies it would be worth the price for the stones alone . I chipped this raw Garnet out of a quartz boulder here in New England. Attached Images

2nd May 2007, 03:36 PM	#1
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	honestly when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom... and now you can get them for a song and a dance not that i'm defending pendray... but he was the pres of the american blade smith assoc. at one time.... G

2nd May 2007, 03:49 PM	#2
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	I wonder what Antonio thinks about this matter...

2nd May 2007, 03:59 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Personally, I love the fact modern smiths are continuing the art and traditions of the past. The Pendray blade that started this thread is an excellent example, and one I'd be proud to own. I, myself, have several modern interpretations of my favorite weapons, and every single one is a work of art. None were inexpensive, and all cost more than I've paid for nearly any antique. I was happy to pay the price for the quality of workmanship in every instance. Any attempt to compare the "worth" or "value" of antiques to their modern counterparts will fail. You may as well attempt to compare modern hand-crafted furniture to antique furniture.

5th May 2007, 04:58 PM	#8
tsubame1 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Magenta, Northern Italy Posts: 123	Hi Antonio. Honestly I was referring to the belittling of modern made artworks that was too strong in the replies (IMHO), and not suggesting you're for the overdecorated ones. I know your taste is quiet far from "Barocco Siciliano", as is mine...

2nd May 2007, 04:34 PM	#11
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	[QUOTE=Gt Obach]honestly when you think about it..... how much did those old blades cost to produce back in ancient times ?.. some the price of a kingdom... and now you can get them for a song and a dance Gt I really don't think they would have cost a kingdom for a dagger maybe a horse or something like that. At the last Timonium seminar there was discussion about how much it would cost to supply a warrior in the Polish army during the 16th or 17th century the cost of a good sword was not that expensive. I have heard that during viking times a good sword was worth the equivalent of $25,000 but that was before good steel was available in larger quantities. It is amazing that when you see some modern makers asking $1200 for a small hunting knife and these guys claim they have some super heat treatment which they claim can make 5,000 cuts in a piece of rope before becoming dull. It's all hype and there are a lot of gullible people out there willing to empty their pockets to buy one. I have been there and done that and that is why I now only collect Antique weapons. Pendray is a great guy and he does not think that one needs to charge an arm and a leg for a knife you can buy a wootz dagger from him for about what you would pay for an antique one. Btw the funniest thing I ever saw was was when at an ABS cutting competition I saw big burly men trying to cut through the wooden dowl of a toilet plunger to prove how good there expensive bowie knives were you never know when a plunger will jump out from behind a tree and attack you in the woods so you better have one of these knives at your side Lew

2nd May 2007, 04:59 PM	#12
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	i agree but a horse was still very valuable.. and the daggers must have been aswell there will alway be hype with blades... just seems to go with the territory.. but the abs does have standards and you should get a decent knife from one of their js or ms smiths.... decent knife for normal situations... excluding fierce plunger attacks, ofcourse G

2nd May 2007, 05:12 PM	#13
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Agree with Lew. The first expensive modern knife I bought based on "Virtually Undestructible" claims and DVD commercial was a Cold Steel tanto knife. I took it to the jungle and tried to open a coconut. The blade tip snapped without even applying a pressure. Yet you see guys piercing a car hood with it in the commercial. So now I have a $40 good old knife, and it never fails. However, the point is only in QUALITY. It is not fair to compare a bad antique with good modern (and vice versa). Similarly, it is not fair to disrespect the antique artist by comparing the product made with and without ANY modern technology.

2nd May 2007, 06:01 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Snobbish more like blind ignorance, I wish there were more like him these days

2nd May 2007, 10:05 PM	#17
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	cold steel sells production knives... .. same idea as the walmart type knives... which some people seem to prefer... ( maybe for the economy, or stainless nature... and that all the good i could possibly say about that ) - they are completely different from a custom knife.. i still maintain that the ancient blades that are bought now ...are usually at unbeatable prices...not at all compared to the old days.. if you were to pay the equivalent now a days... ha ha ... so with that in mind, you are usually getting an acceptable price for some of the decent custom knives being made today... G ps... as you can see with the dha that Jesus made.... !