Golden keris

rasdan · 17th April 2007, 05:07 PM

I like the second keris better Marco. The kinatah looks thicker and finer. (To my eyes that is) But i think its over stained. Is the mendak and central pendok panel gold? Congrats on a very nice keris!!

David · 17th April 2007, 06:25 PM

What you have in the second picture is diffently a better photograph which allows us to examine the quality of the kinatah much better than in the first picture. It is hard to say without viewing the entire keris, but i think i would probably prefer this second one over the first myself. Of course, this says nothing about the intrinsic value of either keris, just my personal likes and dislikes.

And yes, that pendok does look pretty cool!

A. G. Maisey · 18th April 2007, 03:40 AM

I would probaly prefer the blade of the second keris, to the blade of the first keris, but the dress on the first keris is far and away superior to the dress on the second keris.

Yes, the pendok on keris #2 is skillfully done, but embossing is never the equal of engraving from the point of view of sheer quality.

Actual comparative values could only be determined after close examination of the two keris concerned, but I feel that the actual value of keris #1 could come out on top of keris #2.

I will add as a rider that what I am saying here is purely my opinion. I am not contradicting anything that has already been said, merely providing my opinion, based upon my experience.

Boedhi Adhitya · 18th April 2007, 10:03 AM

Regarding the keris #1, well, the gold (if it really gold) certainly new and badly executed. But the blade isn't easily judged from the pictures. It could be old. A newly made keris of this quality from Madura should deserves better kinatah. If not, it only wasting the work of the pande/tukang potong. The dressing, especially the warangka, or more specifically, the wood grains, is good, if not superb. Fragrance sandalwood with Nganam kepang grains (or ndaging urang ?)

About the pendok, as Alan said, embossing is never equal of engraving in the sheer quality. Surakarta tends to prefer the engraving (or 'cukitan') while Jogjakarta prefer the embossing (tatah) technique.

On the pendok #2, Marcokeris has what it called 'tatah wudhulan' (Haryono in his book probably refers it as 'pendulan',(?)). We should have what it seems as a 'rough' surfaces, but should be very 'clear' and details. To achieve this, the craftmen use at least 3 embossing process, first from the face, then from the back and then from the face again. Thus, it is important to have a separate 'center plate' (slorok). Unfortunately, no craftmen today is able to produce the same quality as the old pendok shows. If it really made of suasa and gold, it would cost you somewhere near $1,000 (1$=Rp.10,000.), if you could find one.

Marcokeris · 18th April 2007, 01:38 PM

The gold work of keris n. 1 was really beautiful (one of the best i never seen) but the quality of photo is bad and does not show the work.
Yes, the pendok of keris n. 2 is suasa with gold - plated silver (openwork)
The stone of selut are cheap martapura diamonds

cahaya · 18th April 2007, 02:23 PM

Thanks for (goods) explanation Mas (Mr.) Boedhi,

A. G. Maisey · 20th April 2007, 03:55 AM

As I said, I stated an opinion, and I thank you Pak Boedhi for your opinion.

My designation of the wood in the warangka as "superb" was based on the value placed on such a piece of wood, and the number of times I have seen a comparable piece of wood in any warangka, either old or new. This is brilliant wood by any standard.

I do not understand "Martapura diamonds". Are these the same as intan, or rose cut diamonds? If so, although they may be low priced on the scale of diamond values, used in a selut, they raise the value of the selut considerably in comparison with yakut, cubics, or natural zircons.

17th April 2007, 05:07 PM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	I like the second keris better Marco. The kinatah looks thicker and finer. (To my eyes that is) But i think its over stained. Is the mendak and central pendok panel gold? Congrats on a very nice keris!!

17th April 2007, 06:25 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,231	What you have in the second picture is diffently a better photograph which allows us to examine the quality of the kinatah much better than in the first picture. It is hard to say without viewing the entire keris, but i think i would probably prefer this second one over the first myself. Of course, this says nothing about the intrinsic value of either keris, just my personal likes and dislikes. And yes, that pendok does look pretty cool!

18th April 2007, 03:40 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,054	I would probaly prefer the blade of the second keris, to the blade of the first keris, but the dress on the first keris is far and away superior to the dress on the second keris. Yes, the pendok on keris #2 is skillfully done, but embossing is never the equal of engraving from the point of view of sheer quality. Actual comparative values could only be determined after close examination of the two keris concerned, but I feel that the actual value of keris #1 could come out on top of keris #2. I will add as a rider that what I am saying here is purely my opinion. I am not contradicting anything that has already been said, merely providing my opinion, based upon my experience.

18th April 2007, 10:03 AM	#4
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Regarding the keris #1, well, the gold (if it really gold) certainly new and badly executed. But the blade isn't easily judged from the pictures. It could be old. A newly made keris of this quality from Madura should deserves better kinatah. If not, it only wasting the work of the pande/tukang potong. The dressing, especially the warangka, or more specifically, the wood grains, is good, if not superb. Fragrance sandalwood with Nganam kepang grains (or ndaging urang ?) About the pendok, as Alan said, embossing is never equal of engraving in the sheer quality. Surakarta tends to prefer the engraving (or 'cukitan') while Jogjakarta prefer the embossing (tatah) technique. On the pendok #2, Marcokeris has what it called 'tatah wudhulan' (Haryono in his book probably refers it as 'pendulan',(?)). We should have what it seems as a 'rough' surfaces, but should be very 'clear' and details. To achieve this, the craftmen use at least 3 embossing process, first from the face, then from the back and then from the face again. Thus, it is important to have a separate 'center plate' (slorok). Unfortunately, no craftmen today is able to produce the same quality as the old pendok shows. If it really made of suasa and gold, it would cost you somewhere near $1,000 (1$=Rp.10,000.), if you could find one.

18th April 2007, 01:38 PM	#5
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	The gold work of keris n. 1 was really beautiful (one of the best i never seen) but the quality of photo is bad and does not show the work. Yes, the pendok of keris n. 2 is suasa with gold - plated silver (openwork) The stone of selut are cheap martapura diamonds

18th April 2007, 02:23 PM	#6
cahaya Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 49	Thanks for (goods) explanation Mas (Mr.) Boedhi,

20th April 2007, 03:55 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,054	As I said, I stated an opinion, and I thank you Pak Boedhi for your opinion. My designation of the wood in the warangka as "superb" was based on the value placed on such a piece of wood, and the number of times I have seen a comparable piece of wood in any warangka, either old or new. This is brilliant wood by any standard. I do not understand "Martapura diamonds". Are these the same as intan, or rose cut diamonds? If so, although they may be low priced on the scale of diamond values, used in a selut, they raise the value of the selut considerably in comparison with yakut, cubics, or natural zircons.