Pamor Staining in the UK?

David · 9th April 2007, 01:22 PM

Alan, just for a point of reference, could you tell us what the average cost of a good staining actually is these days?

William.m · 9th April 2007, 11:29 PM

Hmm, I had a contact in France I think who would stain keris for £30. I wish I could find his details though!

Anyways thanks for the response so far.

Will

A. G. Maisey · 10th April 2007, 03:53 AM

David, as you would understand , that is a very difficult question for me to answer.

I probably cannot answer that question.

I can tell you this:- in the mid 1980's a very well known Solo m'ranggi was flown to Pontianak and paid the equivalent of a year's salary for a middle manager, to clean and stain a very small collection of keris. His return flight was also paid and he was provided with accomodation whilst there.

I know of one case of a wealthy collector who was so pleased with a clean and stain job that he gifted a car to the man who did the job.

I also know of many instances where a stain job will be done for nothing.

The cost of sufficient warangan to do a single blade, once, by the pinch method is now roughly $US2.

Jeruk nipis (limes) are currently around $US0.60 per kilo in Solo.

A moderately skilled tradesman gets RP50.000 per day in Solo(RP.9000=$US1).

A m'ranggi is a skilled artisan, not a bricklayer.

It can take anywhere between ten minutes and ten days to produce a good stain on a blade. And you need the experience to know what each individual blade should look like, and the skill to make it look that way.

Marcokeris · 10th April 2007, 08:49 AM

Some years ago, in Italy i bought realgar in a mineral shop and after i used it on a keris blade. The result was bad: at the and of the process (in a solution of realgar's dust and lemon) over the keris' blade remained a very thin coating of yellow /orange dust (sulphur?) and was very difficult to remove this dust.
On the contrary pink realgar buyed in indonesia never leaves residual matter sticked on the blade .

David · 10th April 2007, 01:42 PM

Thanks Alan. Though a difficult question you still managed to tell me what i wanted to know.

A. G. Maisey · 11th April 2007, 03:27 AM

Marco, lemons are no good to use in staining. Only lime juice is going to give a correct result. Don't ask me why, I don't know, but I've tried lemon juice a number of times, usually because limes were too expensive or unavailable at the time, and I've never yet had an acceptable result from lemon juice.

When you say a residue was left on the blade, did you allow the realgar to settle to the bottom of the liquid first? When you mix the warangan---or realgar--- into the juice you should wait about half an hour before you begin to use the suspension---note:- it is a suspension, not a solution.

Secondly, did you rinse thoroughly between each application of the liquid, and dry prior to beginning the subsequent applications?

Thirdly, did you rinse thoroughly, pat dry and sun dry the final application?

The warangan that I have bought in Solo varies a lot in colour, from white/yellow, to white, to yellow, to reddish yellow, to red, and all shades and combinations of shade in between.

Marcokeris · 11th April 2007, 11:13 AM

Alan thanks for your answer.
I never rinse by water between each application of the liquid prior to beginning the subsequent applications. I only dry the blade in a "non direct sunlight" place (do i wrong?)
Yes, after final application i rinse thouroughly but... when i put the blade to dry sometimes rust comes on the blade (but if i put weapon oil over the blade before to dry it the rust don't comes)
I use western lemon with (in my opinion) good outcome (maybe with indonesian limes it will be better but is not possible to find them in my cowntry). Some years ago I bought in a italian market some "brasilian" limes and used them with the same outcomes (but these limes, on the contrary of indonesian limes, didn't have any seed inside)
The warangan i usually buy in Yogya is the same colour you say . It is very expensive (80.000/100.000 rp for one gram) on the contrary of white warangan for rats.The dust is rather withe with very-very little cristal orange residual (in lemon juice).

9th April 2007, 01:22 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Alan, just for a point of reference, could you tell us what the average cost of a good staining actually is these days?

9th April 2007, 11:29 PM	#2
William.m Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: England Posts: 104	Hmm, I had a contact in France I think who would stain keris for £30. I wish I could find his details though! Anyways thanks for the response so far. Will

10th April 2007, 03:53 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	David, as you would understand , that is a very difficult question for me to answer. I probably cannot answer that question. I can tell you this:- in the mid 1980's a very well known Solo m'ranggi was flown to Pontianak and paid the equivalent of a year's salary for a middle manager, to clean and stain a very small collection of keris. His return flight was also paid and he was provided with accomodation whilst there. I know of one case of a wealthy collector who was so pleased with a clean and stain job that he gifted a car to the man who did the job. I also know of many instances where a stain job will be done for nothing. The cost of sufficient warangan to do a single blade, once, by the pinch method is now roughly $US2. Jeruk nipis (limes) are currently around $US0.60 per kilo in Solo. A moderately skilled tradesman gets RP50.000 per day in Solo(RP.9000=$US1). A m'ranggi is a skilled artisan, not a bricklayer. It can take anywhere between ten minutes and ten days to produce a good stain on a blade. And you need the experience to know what each individual blade should look like, and the skill to make it look that way.

10th April 2007, 08:49 AM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Some years ago, in Italy i bought realgar in a mineral shop and after i used it on a keris blade. The result was bad: at the and of the process (in a solution of realgar's dust and lemon) over the keris' blade remained a very thin coating of yellow /orange dust (sulphur?) and was very difficult to remove this dust. On the contrary pink realgar buyed in indonesia never leaves residual matter sticked on the blade .

10th April 2007, 01:42 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Thanks Alan. Though a difficult question you still managed to tell me what i wanted to know.

11th April 2007, 03:27 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Marco, lemons are no good to use in staining. Only lime juice is going to give a correct result. Don't ask me why, I don't know, but I've tried lemon juice a number of times, usually because limes were too expensive or unavailable at the time, and I've never yet had an acceptable result from lemon juice. When you say a residue was left on the blade, did you allow the realgar to settle to the bottom of the liquid first? When you mix the warangan---or realgar--- into the juice you should wait about half an hour before you begin to use the suspension---note:- it is a suspension, not a solution. Secondly, did you rinse thoroughly between each application of the liquid, and dry prior to beginning the subsequent applications? Thirdly, did you rinse thoroughly, pat dry and sun dry the final application? The warangan that I have bought in Solo varies a lot in colour, from white/yellow, to white, to yellow, to reddish yellow, to red, and all shades and combinations of shade in between.

11th April 2007, 11:13 AM	#7
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Alan thanks for your answer. I never rinse by water between each application of the liquid prior to beginning the subsequent applications. I only dry the blade in a "non direct sunlight" place (do i wrong?) Yes, after final application i rinse thouroughly but... when i put the blade to dry sometimes rust comes on the blade (but if i put weapon oil over the blade before to dry it the rust don't comes) I use western lemon with (in my opinion) good outcome (maybe with indonesian limes it will be better but is not possible to find them in my cowntry). Some years ago I bought in a italian market some "brasilian" limes and used them with the same outcomes (but these limes, on the contrary of indonesian limes, didn't have any seed inside) The warangan i usually buy in Yogya is the same colour you say . It is very expensive (80.000/100.000 rp for one gram) on the contrary of white warangan for rats.The dust is rather withe with very-very little cristal orange residual (in lemon juice).