The Flying Keris

Kiai Carita · 26th March 2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh stout

I watched a pendekar show a crowd of tourists how a magical stone could protect him from being cut. He showed us his arm shaking as the power entered him, then he chopped his arm with a golok. Josh

Hello Josh. I presume that you must be the Josh from PGB ... so "Salam Perguruan!" _()_ (this is meant to be hands soja before chest). ... Gentlemen, I think we have a White Crane pendekar here.

In Indonesia you often come across what appears to be magic. I have experienced it to especially with keris and othe tosan aji. First I found a keris in my grand mother's empty house - had been empty for years. I was practising some movement meditation and my hand felt like it was pulled very hard to the top of a cupboard and there was a keris, completely clean lying on a thick bed of dust. A few minutes after I picked it up, a neighbour came with a torch looking for what he saw as a bright light falling on to the roof. I wear this keris when I play dalang in London and always people fall in love with me. It is just a simple tilam upih in a gayaman timoho pelet wrangka, nothing special, the ganja has come loose and the pamor is only wos wutah but it seems to have a strong magic in it, stronger than an other keris I inherited which looks and is physically a much better keris. The better one never brings me the same type of luck when I wear it.

An other time, I lost a tombak from my room. I loved this tombak very much because my grand mother gave it to me as a child and used to tell me to use it to move rain clouds when she was drying rice. I lost it about 10 years ago... then last year my wife smelled a very sweet smell in the room and her hand felt as if was being pulled, and there, on top of our wardrobe was the tombak. Only the blade, the shaft was lost, the blade was a little uncared for but I recognized it as mine immediately.

Yesterday I was riding my motorbike to look at all the deforestation around Ngawi (where I live - massive deforestation the year Suharto stepped aside) and saw some interseting stone sculptures in a garden at the edge of a remote village. A strange place to see such expressive carvings I thought so I stopped and asked who made them. The man in the verandah said they were his. Then I noticed some older stones which looked like bonangs and kenongs from a gamelan set, and also some small linggas. I asked him whose they were and he said that they were ancient ones he found in his kebun. I asked if I could buy them of him and he said he did not dare sell. Why? I asked... he said that several of them have returned by themselves to the place he found them... and I believe him.

Maybe I am just a fool but in the silat world there are many things that seem to be magic. My trainer could make people not find his house - walk right past it. An other teacher could speak as if he was whispering in your heart. When ever one trainer moved the long movement of Crane Moves in Nine Shadows someone would fall in to trance. Why? I don't know. One thing I think is sure is that if someone has a magic keris they are not going to ever sell it.

Warm salaams to all,
Bram.

David · 26th March 2007, 07:52 PM

Josh, you are revealling some of the key secrets to true magick. Magick works on many levels and from many different directions sometimes. We should never underestimate the power of the brain either. When someone is healed by a plecebo for instance, those who chose not to acknowledge magick will say it's only in their heads. But the man has been healed! That power of the mind to heal is as much magick as anything else. And as Josh has stated, a certain amount of showmanship gets thrown into the mix with any good act of magick to elevate the level of consciousness to the point that allows the magick to take hold. I find it funny when folks denounce magick as being only in your head as if that somehow invalidates it or makes it unreal. We are the sum of our experiences and these experience help determine out realities. Even so, this doesn't mean that trickery and showmanship are not often used to bilk unsuspecting people out of large sums of money as was the case in Mr. Maisey's story of the flying keris. Again i encourage all to keep an open mind, but also a modicum of skepticism in your tool kit when attempting to determine an "authentic" magickal or mystical experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiai Carita

One thing I think is sure is that if someone has a magic keris they are not going to ever sell it.

Bram, it is nice to hear from you again. I have had similar experiences with "magickal" objects, but not, as yet, with any of my keris. Your statement here is of the utmost importance to us in the collecting community when trying to understand keris and the magickal experience. The sad truth is that just about any time you are told a story about the magickal powers of a keris that someone is trying to sell you it will most likely be a lie. This does not negate that there is a true magickal "reality" to keris. It is just that these stories are most often used by unscupulous dealers to get your money. Certainly it is true of internet sales like on eBay, where the buyer never has the opportunity to come in contact with the keris to sense if there is any active energies working there. So the old axiom still holds guys. Buy the keris, not the story.

A. G. Maisey · 27th March 2007, 05:45 AM

Let's pass on the question of buying and selling magic, just for the moment.

Let us consider this:-

in the Javanese world view, how much of the physical things of the world are reality, and how much of an idea is reality?

if the physical and the idea or belief can come together in the micro cosmos of man, is not the reality of the idea as one with the reality of existence of the physical object?

thus, if an idea is real for a person, or for a group of people, is not the value of that idea equivalent to the value of actuality?

If we look at Javanese society, and the way in which it is organised , we can find multitudes of examples that could be used to illustrate the proposition I am putting forward here. The keris and the position it occupies within Javanese society complies with the parameters set by the society for the relationship between all physical things and all non physical things. It is not a special case. It falls within the general framework of the way in which Javanese people tend to see the world.

The anthropologist, Niels Mulder, who carried out considerable research in Jawa, has written fairly extensively on this uniquely Javanese way of relating to the world.

Of course, there is a downside to this way of acting and reacting, and it comes when people with these attitudes are forced to act and react with the world outside their own. The Asian monetary crisis hit in 1997. Ten years later, Indonesia is still suffering the effects of this.

Why?

josh stout · 27th March 2007, 03:54 PM

Thank you Bram for the nice introduction._()_

Relating to the idea of a keris working as a connection between the inner and outer worlds-

"...thus, if an idea is real for a person, or for a group of people, is not the value of that idea equivalent to the value of actuality?

If we look at Javanese society, and the way in which it is organized, we can find multitudes of examples that could be used to illustrate the proposition I am putting forward here. The keris and the position it occupies within Javanese society comply with the parameters set by the society for the relationship between all physical things and all non-physical things. It is not a special case. It falls within the general framework of the way in which Javanese people tend to see the world..."

This is very well put, and also reveals one of the problems with intangibles. Our mind builds bridges between the inner and outer worlds. These bridges come in the form of movements or physical things like the keris that when done in the right way, form bridges into the inner realm of others. We often think that if something has its origin in mental states or beliefs, then it its validity rests purely in the mind and is thus open to any interpretation. Some people believe things as fast as they can make them up. However, what the keris teaches us is that a true bridge is not casually constructed by unskilled labor. There is physical skill that forms the substance for the beliefs. This is true for art in general, but when the art carries the spiritual and metaphysical as part of its creation the skill and physical techniques require that much more dedication. In addition, it takes a certain amount of skill to simply be able to recognize the level of mastery that it takes to produce a keris or other thing with inner power. This is why as collectors become more knowledgeable they often seek out the older keris. The old and the new may look similar, but often they are not the same. Some people think only the old keris have power. I don't know about that, but it would be typical of modern things to be made without the level of skill necessary. Still as a physical skill, no matter how difficult, it is still possible that some may still have it. Modern life is just not conducive to the dedication necessary to reach that level.
Josh

Pusaka · 6th April 2007, 01:29 PM

Arguably the most important part of a keris is the blade. A family that have falling on hard times may chose to sell the outer “clothing” of a valuable family keris but will often not sell the blade. The blade is described and categorized according to its physical/artistic construction along with its age but there is another category which is to many more important, a keris blade is said to be either alive or dead.
A keris which is alive has an energy field around the blade which may be experienced by different people in various ways. Some can actually see a soft coloured light around the blade others feel a sensation of lightness, warmth or tingling when they touch the blade. A dead blade is exactly as the term “dead” suggests. It is devoid of any energy field and although it may be a beautifully constructed keris at the end of the day it is only a piece of steel.
A blade which is alive (ampuh) can be categorized variously depending on the nature of the energy which permeates the blade. Firstly the blade can be termed good or bad, a better word would perhaps be evil.
The blade may have a type of consciousness or not.
A common bar magnet which is surrounded by a magnetic field is nothing more then a piece of steel with an energy field around it however we would not say it was alive yet it clearly has properties which a common piece of steel has not. Similarly it is possible to magnetize a keris blade if you have the knowledge to do so. The result is a piece of steel with an energy flowing through the blade. It may be used as a conduit to heal or harm but it has no consciousness so to speak.
A blade which possesses consciousness can be categorized into two types, either the owner has made the blade an extension of his body and thus the blade is mentally linked to the owner or the blade has been put in the service of a jinn, good or bad by binding it to the blade through the use of magical rites.

Rick · 6th April 2007, 01:44 PM

Interesting Pusaka; thanks for the input.

Putting the esoteric aside for a moment ..

One may "magnetize" a screwdriver by repeatedly stroking the blade in one direction only with a strong magnet; I suspect that this method would work on other ferrous objects. I have also run across the occasional piece of restaurant tableware that was magnetized.

Magnet therapy can be useful in alternative medicine.

Pusaka · 6th April 2007, 02:34 PM

Hi Rick,

True, you can magnetize any object which is constructed from a suitable material and of a suitable geometry. I have noticed that steel sometimes becomes magnetic just from machining it e.g. drilling a hole. I often notice how drill bits become slightly magnetic and yet the material they machined was not. I also believe that magnetism can be produced in a blade just by the way in which you work the steel.
Having said that when I referred to a keris blade being magnetized I actually did not mean common magnetism but a different type of magnetism, perhaps I should have just used the word energized.

David · 6th April 2007, 02:37 PM

It is quite simple to activate the magnetic field of a keris. Just hold the tip to a powerful magnet for a few moments. If you then run a compass along it's length you will find that it now have a magnetic "north" and "south" pole. I do with with all my keris as part of a cleansing and re-alignment of energies.
Pusaka, prehaps i've got it backwards. You mention keris blades that are put in the service of a jinn. I had always understood that the jinn are put into the keris to be in the service of the owner of the keris. You sem to imply that the jinn controls the keris.
Likewise i still have trouble wrapping my mind around this concept of the "evil" keris. Why would an empu create a keris that is "evil" and would do it's owner harm? What would be the purpose?

27th March 2007, 05:45 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Let's pass on the question of buying and selling magic, just for the moment. Let us consider this:- in the Javanese world view, how much of the physical things of the world are reality, and how much of an idea is reality? if the physical and the idea or belief can come together in the micro cosmos of man, is not the reality of the idea as one with the reality of existence of the physical object? thus, if an idea is real for a person, or for a group of people, is not the value of that idea equivalent to the value of actuality? If we look at Javanese society, and the way in which it is organised , we can find multitudes of examples that could be used to illustrate the proposition I am putting forward here. The keris and the position it occupies within Javanese society complies with the parameters set by the society for the relationship between all physical things and all non physical things. It is not a special case. It falls within the general framework of the way in which Javanese people tend to see the world. The anthropologist, Niels Mulder, who carried out considerable research in Jawa, has written fairly extensively on this uniquely Javanese way of relating to the world. Of course, there is a downside to this way of acting and reacting, and it comes when people with these attitudes are forced to act and react with the world outside their own. The Asian monetary crisis hit in 1997. Ten years later, Indonesia is still suffering the effects of this. Why?

27th March 2007, 03:54 PM	#4
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Thank you Bram for the nice introduction._()_ Relating to the idea of a keris working as a connection between the inner and outer worlds- "...thus, if an idea is real for a person, or for a group of people, is not the value of that idea equivalent to the value of actuality? If we look at Javanese society, and the way in which it is organized, we can find multitudes of examples that could be used to illustrate the proposition I am putting forward here. The keris and the position it occupies within Javanese society comply with the parameters set by the society for the relationship between all physical things and all non-physical things. It is not a special case. It falls within the general framework of the way in which Javanese people tend to see the world..." This is very well put, and also reveals one of the problems with intangibles. Our mind builds bridges between the inner and outer worlds. These bridges come in the form of movements or physical things like the keris that when done in the right way, form bridges into the inner realm of others. We often think that if something has its origin in mental states or beliefs, then it its validity rests purely in the mind and is thus open to any interpretation. Some people believe things as fast as they can make them up. However, what the keris teaches us is that a true bridge is not casually constructed by unskilled labor. There is physical skill that forms the substance for the beliefs. This is true for art in general, but when the art carries the spiritual and metaphysical as part of its creation the skill and physical techniques require that much more dedication. In addition, it takes a certain amount of skill to simply be able to recognize the level of mastery that it takes to produce a keris or other thing with inner power. This is why as collectors become more knowledgeable they often seek out the older keris. The old and the new may look similar, but often they are not the same. Some people think only the old keris have power. I don't know about that, but it would be typical of modern things to be made without the level of skill necessary. Still as a physical skill, no matter how difficult, it is still possible that some may still have it. Modern life is just not conducive to the dedication necessary to reach that level. Josh

6th April 2007, 01:29 PM	#5
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Arguably the most important part of a keris is the blade. A family that have falling on hard times may chose to sell the outer “clothing” of a valuable family keris but will often not sell the blade. The blade is described and categorized according to its physical/artistic construction along with its age but there is another category which is to many more important, a keris blade is said to be either alive or dead. A keris which is alive has an energy field around the blade which may be experienced by different people in various ways. Some can actually see a soft coloured light around the blade others feel a sensation of lightness, warmth or tingling when they touch the blade. A dead blade is exactly as the term “dead” suggests. It is devoid of any energy field and although it may be a beautifully constructed keris at the end of the day it is only a piece of steel. A blade which is alive (ampuh) can be categorized variously depending on the nature of the energy which permeates the blade. Firstly the blade can be termed good or bad, a better word would perhaps be evil. The blade may have a type of consciousness or not. A common bar magnet which is surrounded by a magnetic field is nothing more then a piece of steel with an energy field around it however we would not say it was alive yet it clearly has properties which a common piece of steel has not. Similarly it is possible to magnetize a keris blade if you have the knowledge to do so. The result is a piece of steel with an energy flowing through the blade. It may be used as a conduit to heal or harm but it has no consciousness so to speak. A blade which possesses consciousness can be categorized into two types, either the owner has made the blade an extension of his body and thus the blade is mentally linked to the owner or the blade has been put in the service of a jinn, good or bad by binding it to the blade through the use of magical rites.

6th April 2007, 01:44 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Interesting Pusaka; thanks for the input. Putting the esoteric aside for a moment .. One may "magnetize" a screwdriver by repeatedly stroking the blade in one direction only with a strong magnet; I suspect that this method would work on other ferrous objects. I have also run across the occasional piece of restaurant tableware that was magnetized. Magnet therapy can be useful in alternative medicine.

6th April 2007, 02:34 PM	#7
Pusaka Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 341	Hi Rick, True, you can magnetize any object which is constructed from a suitable material and of a suitable geometry. I have noticed that steel sometimes becomes magnetic just from machining it e.g. drilling a hole. I often notice how drill bits become slightly magnetic and yet the material they machined was not. I also believe that magnetism can be produced in a blade just by the way in which you work the steel. Having said that when I referred to a keris blade being magnetized I actually did not mean common magnetism but a different type of magnetism, perhaps I should have just used the word energized.

6th April 2007, 02:37 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	It is quite simple to activate the magnetic field of a keris. Just hold the tip to a powerful magnet for a few moments. If you then run a compass along it's length you will find that it now have a magnetic "north" and "south" pole. I do with with all my keris as part of a cleansing and re-alignment of energies. Pusaka, prehaps i've got it backwards. You mention keris blades that are put in the service of a jinn. I had always understood that the jinn are put into the keris to be in the service of the owner of the keris. You sem to imply that the jinn controls the keris. Likewise i still have trouble wrapping my mind around this concept of the "evil" keris. Why would an empu create a keris that is "evil" and would do it's owner harm? What would be the purpose?