Mahdi Spear Head?

FenrisWolf · 17th March 2007, 06:53 AM

That is how they were sold to me, four spear heads collected in North Africa and the Sudan, from the estate of a Texas oilman who worked over there back in the 1960s. The shape of the leaf blade is certainly reminscent of the disk pommel arm daggers from the same region.

kronckew · 17th March 2007, 08:42 AM

winston churchill of course took part in the battle of omdurman, his account is very good. see This Linky

there are references to throwing spears and wounded soldiers returning from the battle with "fish hook spears" still stuck in their bodies.

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2007, 09:48 AM

These look more like the spears from the South Sudan, not really the same folk. As in todays conflict there. They do not look typical of the Mahdist followers spears I have seen. The leaf blade part is quite similar so like with most "tribal/ethnographic" weapons drawing lines is not always a good idea.

Pukka Bundook · 17th March 2007, 03:18 PM

I can imagine recovering your spears After the battle wouldn't be much fun, ...
Be all stuck up with bits of meat and all kinds of things!

But if the aim was to create the "lions claw" effect,...just leave the thing 'loaded' for the next victim!

FenrisWolf · 17th March 2007, 05:51 PM

Here are the other three spear heads that came in the same batch:

Given the size of the army that was fielded by the Mahdi at Omduran, it's likely he had troops from all over the Sudan/North Africa, not to mention the logistics of trying to keep them all armed and ready for battle. I can't imagine a warrior about to go into battle is going to be too fussed over what part of the Sudan his spear came from, so long as it has a pointy end to stick into his opponent.

Jim McDougall · 17th March 2007, 08:04 PM

These are outstanding acquisitions Fenris! and they are indeed Mahdist associated spears, as has been mentioned. You are right that the Mahdist forces were highly comprehensive, with members from many regions that included the south, west and Nuba mountains. Interestingly many of the Sudanese spears had shafts of bamboo which came from the Nuba Mountains.
The battalion sized units that comprised these components of the vast forces were termed 'rubs'. The warriors among these forces were referred by the Mahdi as 'Ansar' (= helper, as described in Koran as disciples of the Prophet), while the British applied the term 'Dervish' taken from religious mystics they had encountered in the Levant.

In the exhibition of Sudanese material in Austria in Nov,2001- Oct 2002 (Lenz & Schallaburg) Tim Kendall described some of these barbed spears as having a variety of points or viscious flesh tearing barbs or a combination of the two and that these were designed to be hurled at close range.

Many of the longer stabbing spears had very wide leaf shaped points, which also caused horrific wounds. There are also extremely large points which are actually excessive for actual stabbing, which are typically highly decorated with inscriptions and motif and are termed 'alem' .These I am told were actually used as standards to rally forces during battle, as they were so large as to be seen when held up as focal point.

Very nice spears you got, but I'd hate to be on the wrong end of one of 'em

All the best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2007, 08:12 PM

They don't like it up em! as Corporal Jones would say. Cpl Jone a character in a long running UK TV program called "dads army" about the Home Guard during ww2. Cpl Jones was a veteran from the Sudan wars. He meant the bayonet.

17th March 2007, 06:53 AM	#1
FenrisWolf Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 181	That is how they were sold to me, four spear heads collected in North Africa and the Sudan, from the estate of a Texas oilman who worked over there back in the 1960s. The shape of the leaf blade is certainly reminscent of the disk pommel arm daggers from the same region.

17th March 2007, 08:42 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	winston churchill of course took part in the battle of omdurman, his account is very good. see This Linky there are references to throwing spears and wounded soldiers returning from the battle with "fish hook spears" still stuck in their bodies.

17th March 2007, 09:48 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,917	These look more like the spears from the South Sudan, not really the same folk. As in todays conflict there. They do not look typical of the Mahdist followers spears I have seen. The leaf blade part is quite similar so like with most "tribal/ethnographic" weapons drawing lines is not always a good idea.

17th March 2007, 03:18 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I can imagine recovering your spears After the battle wouldn't be much fun, ... Be all stuck up with bits of meat and all kinds of things! But if the aim was to create the "lions claw" effect,...just leave the thing 'loaded' for the next victim!

17th March 2007, 05:51 PM	#5
FenrisWolf Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 181	Here are the other three spear heads that came in the same batch: Given the size of the army that was fielded by the Mahdi at Omduran, it's likely he had troops from all over the Sudan/North Africa, not to mention the logistics of trying to keep them all armed and ready for battle. I can't imagine a warrior about to go into battle is going to be too fussed over what part of the Sudan his spear came from, so long as it has a pointy end to stick into his opponent.

17th March 2007, 08:04 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,652	These are outstanding acquisitions Fenris! and they are indeed Mahdist associated spears, as has been mentioned. You are right that the Mahdist forces were highly comprehensive, with members from many regions that included the south, west and Nuba mountains. Interestingly many of the Sudanese spears had shafts of bamboo which came from the Nuba Mountains. The battalion sized units that comprised these components of the vast forces were termed 'rubs'. The warriors among these forces were referred by the Mahdi as 'Ansar' (= helper, as described in Koran as disciples of the Prophet), while the British applied the term 'Dervish' taken from religious mystics they had encountered in the Levant. In the exhibition of Sudanese material in Austria in Nov,2001- Oct 2002 (Lenz & Schallaburg) Tim Kendall described some of these barbed spears as having a variety of points or viscious flesh tearing barbs or a combination of the two and that these were designed to be hurled at close range. Many of the longer stabbing spears had very wide leaf shaped points, which also caused horrific wounds. There are also extremely large points which are actually excessive for actual stabbing, which are typically highly decorated with inscriptions and motif and are termed 'alem' .These I am told were actually used as standards to rally forces during battle, as they were so large as to be seen when held up as focal point. Very nice spears you got, but I'd hate to be on the wrong end of one of 'em All the best, Jim

17th March 2007, 08:12 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,917	They don't like it up em! as Corporal Jones would say. Cpl Jone a character in a long running UK TV program called "dads army" about the Home Guard during ww2. Cpl Jones was a veteran from the Sudan wars. He meant the bayonet.