ivory hilt/Madura, tree of life with DATE ?

David · 2nd March 2007, 01:06 PM

No Pargeran Datu, you are indeed correct. I am locking this thread until i can check out your accusation and if you are correct it will remain so until said auction is completed.

David · 4th March 2007, 03:34 PM

Since no evidence has arrived that this is a live auction i am re-opening this thread. I think this is a very interesting hilt that calls for some good discussion.
If i do find this piece to be presently in auction i will, of course, re-lock the thread. Just as a reminder (which i am sure you guys don't need

) discussion of live auctions are strictly forbidden, with a 10-day suspension for the original poster for the transgression.

Pangeran Datu · 6th March 2007, 04:36 AM

Hi Willem,

I see that the auction finished early. The seller must have gotten the price he/she was after. I hope you were the successful bidder.

As far as the date on the medal is concerned, I believe that it was a presentation piece, given to some or all of the 3000 or so Madurese troop detachment (prior to departure) assisting the VOC in subjugating Blambangan in the Puputan Bayu I war.
The VOC finally had a sufficiently large force assembled by Oct. 1771, but because of fears that their forces may succumb to disease and pestilence which were endemic in Blambangan at the time, they delayed their attack until 18 Dec. 1771.

All the best.

David · 6th March 2007, 10:40 PM

P.D., your explanation seems very plausible, though it does not explain the 1 and the 24. If this were meant as part of the date it could only be January 24th, which would date the hilt a good 9-11 mons. before the event you believe it commemorates. If it is not part of the date do you have any idea what it's significance might be?

A. G. Maisey · 7th March 2007, 12:56 AM

When we guess, anything is possible.

3000 handles all the same?

Yeah, maybe. Also maybe not.

The only person who knows what that number means is the bloke who ordered it carved, and I reckon he's dead.

But if we're allowed to guess, I'll have a guess too :- I reckon its to remind the original owner of the birthday of his senior wife--- if he forgot that he could be in real trouble.

asomotif · 7th March 2007, 08:53 AM

The Keris was sold on a local dutch website.
It went slightly over my budget, so I had to let it go.

However for the sake of conversation some additional pictures.

PS. a friend suggested that maybe it is not a complete date , but that the 1771 is infact some islamic writting

Some comments on that ?

Best regards,
Willem

Alam Shah · 7th March 2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

...PS. a friend suggested that maybe it is not a complete date , but that the 1771 is infact some islamic writting

Some comments on that ?

I doubt it's Islamic writing. If it is, then it's 1661. But then again, the number 7 does not look like islamic numeral. I guess we'll never know.

7th March 2007, 08:53 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	The Keris was sold on a local dutch website. It went slightly over my budget, so I had to let it go. However for the sake of conversation some additional pictures. PS. a friend suggested that maybe it is not a complete date , but that the 1771 is infact some islamic writting Some comments on that ? Best regards, Willem Attached Images

2nd March 2007, 01:06 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	No Pargeran Datu, you are indeed correct. I am locking this thread until i can check out your accusation and if you are correct it will remain so until said auction is completed.

4th March 2007, 03:34 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Since no evidence has arrived that this is a live auction i am re-opening this thread. I think this is a very interesting hilt that calls for some good discussion. If i do find this piece to be presently in auction i will, of course, re-lock the thread. Just as a reminder (which i am sure you guys don't need ) discussion of live auctions are strictly forbidden, with a 10-day suspension for the original poster for the transgression.

6th March 2007, 04:36 AM	#3
Pangeran Datu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 79	Hi Willem, I see that the auction finished early. The seller must have gotten the price he/she was after. I hope you were the successful bidder. As far as the date on the medal is concerned, I believe that it was a presentation piece, given to some or all of the 3000 or so Madurese troop detachment (prior to departure) assisting the VOC in subjugating Blambangan in the Puputan Bayu I war. The VOC finally had a sufficiently large force assembled by Oct. 1771, but because of fears that their forces may succumb to disease and pestilence which were endemic in Blambangan at the time, they delayed their attack until 18 Dec. 1771. All the best.

6th March 2007, 10:40 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	P.D., your explanation seems very plausible, though it does not explain the 1 and the 24. If this were meant as part of the date it could only be January 24th, which would date the hilt a good 9-11 mons. before the event you believe it commemorates. If it is not part of the date do you have any idea what it's significance might be?

7th March 2007, 12:56 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	When we guess, anything is possible. 3000 handles all the same? Yeah, maybe. Also maybe not. The only person who knows what that number means is the bloke who ordered it carved, and I reckon he's dead. But if we're allowed to guess, I'll have a guess too :- I reckon its to remind the original owner of the birthday of his senior wife--- if he forgot that he could be in real trouble.