Scallop-edged Kris

David · 1st March 2007, 01:20 PM

AFAIK there is no hard and fast rule about the usage of the words "keris" and "kris" on these forums. Over time many of us here have adapted "keris" for the Indo blades and "kris" for the Moro so that if Rick or Ian or some other regular uses the word "kris" i can be fairly sure what they mean without further description. But Alan is right that this is a very artificial device that can lead to confusion if it is not established in the discussion at hand. Obviously some of the most reknown writers on the Indo keris have used the spelling "kris" in the titles of their books, though you rarely see "keris" used for the Moro variety. I certainly have no problem with people using any of the spellings Alan named as long as they are clear about the variety they are speaking of.

As for your question about these blades, i am far more used to hearing this type of edge described as "pointy luks" which is probably another incorrect use of language since "luk" refers to the curves on Indo blades, which only adds to the confusion. But if you had asked about "pointy luks" i would have immediately understood your question. It seems we are constantly interchanging terms for the parts of Indo keris and Moro kris in a most inappropriate manner. Even when just discussing Indo keris it should be pointed out that the Javanese name for various parts are not the same as for the Malay peninsula area and they certainly don't apply to Moro kris.
The bottom line is understanding. Is our point understood? Do others know what part of the blade we are referring to or even what region or culture we are talking about? Sometimes it requires a few extra words to make our points clear.

VANDOO · 1st March 2007, 03:14 PM

WE ARE NOT LIKELY TO TRY AND ANSWER A QUESTION IF WE ARE NOT SURE WHAT IS BEING ASKED, IT HELPS TO AVOID GETTING EGG ON THE FACE

A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS IS VERY TRUE SO IF YOU COULD POST SOME GOOD PICTURE OF YOUR SWORD AS WELL AS MEASUREMENTS, MATERIALS USED ON THE HILT (BONE, IVORY,SILVER,GOLD OR GOLD WASH ,ECT.) AS WELL AS A PICTURE OF THE SCABBARD IF YOU HAVE ONE I SUSPECT SOMEONE CAN GIVE YOU AN EVEN BETTER ASSESMENT AND INFORMATION ON THE KRIS.

THE PROBLEMS THAT ARISE IN COMUNICATING DUE TO SPELLING OR RECOGNIZING ONE PERSON OR GROUPS TERMINOLGY IS BAD ENOUGH BUT IT CAN REALLY GET FUNNY WHEN IT IS SPOKEN BUT EVERYONE PRONOUNCES IT DIFFERENT HAVING ONLY SEEN THE FORIGN WORD WRITTEN IN A BOOK

Amuk Murugul · 2nd March 2007, 08:55 PM

Hullo everyone,

Points all taken and will be borne in mind. I am most grateful.
Returning to my original query, asking for information about scalloped-edged/pointy-luk-ed kris/keris:
Thank you Battara and Ian.

Best regards.

1st March 2007, 01:20 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	AFAIK there is no hard and fast rule about the usage of the words "keris" and "kris" on these forums. Over time many of us here have adapted "keris" for the Indo blades and "kris" for the Moro so that if Rick or Ian or some other regular uses the word "kris" i can be fairly sure what they mean without further description. But Alan is right that this is a very artificial device that can lead to confusion if it is not established in the discussion at hand. Obviously some of the most reknown writers on the Indo keris have used the spelling "kris" in the titles of their books, though you rarely see "keris" used for the Moro variety. I certainly have no problem with people using any of the spellings Alan named as long as they are clear about the variety they are speaking of. As for your question about these blades, i am far more used to hearing this type of edge described as "pointy luks" which is probably another incorrect use of language since "luk" refers to the curves on Indo blades, which only adds to the confusion. But if you had asked about "pointy luks" i would have immediately understood your question. It seems we are constantly interchanging terms for the parts of Indo keris and Moro kris in a most inappropriate manner. Even when just discussing Indo keris it should be pointed out that the Javanese name for various parts are not the same as for the Malay peninsula area and they certainly don't apply to Moro kris. The bottom line is understanding. Is our point understood? Do others know what part of the blade we are referring to or even what region or culture we are talking about? Sometimes it requires a few extra words to make our points clear.

1st March 2007, 03:14 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WE ARE NOT LIKELY TO TRY AND ANSWER A QUESTION IF WE ARE NOT SURE WHAT IS BEING ASKED, IT HELPS TO AVOID GETTING EGG ON THE FACE A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS IS VERY TRUE SO IF YOU COULD POST SOME GOOD PICTURE OF YOUR SWORD AS WELL AS MEASUREMENTS, MATERIALS USED ON THE HILT (BONE, IVORY,SILVER,GOLD OR GOLD WASH ,ECT.) AS WELL AS A PICTURE OF THE SCABBARD IF YOU HAVE ONE I SUSPECT SOMEONE CAN GIVE YOU AN EVEN BETTER ASSESMENT AND INFORMATION ON THE KRIS. THE PROBLEMS THAT ARISE IN COMUNICATING DUE TO SPELLING OR RECOGNIZING ONE PERSON OR GROUPS TERMINOLGY IS BAD ENOUGH BUT IT CAN REALLY GET FUNNY WHEN IT IS SPOKEN BUT EVERYONE PRONOUNCES IT DIFFERENT HAVING ONLY SEEN THE FORIGN WORD WRITTEN IN A BOOK

2nd March 2007, 08:55 PM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 473	Hullo everyone, Points all taken and will be borne in mind. I am most grateful. Returning to my original query, asking for information about scalloped-edged/pointy-luk-ed kris/keris: Thank you Battara and Ian. Best regards.