The Flying Keris

[A. G. Maisey]

The whole "magic keris" business falls within the ambit of beliefs surrounding sorcery, witchcraft and magic in general. As an object it need be no more "magical" than any other object.

The magical object in South East Asian societies gains its power from cultural and social structure and beliefs. Where this "magic" spills over into European cultures it is because the South East Asian beliefs have influenced the European beliefs.

An excellent book which may give a little insight into these matters as they are placed in SE Asian societies is :- "Understanding Witchcraft and Sorcery in Southeast Asia"---Watson and Ellen, Uni Hawaii Press, 1993.

[lelang69]

magic, genie, angel, god, flying keris, walking keris whatelse belive it or not or dummy or fool

loving god (magical power) and his propet is amazing faith ( I belive in god very much), is it dummy or fool?

according to me please respect the defference belive or faith. someone belive that keris can fly (respect it). malay, javanese and other southeast asia belive keris has magical power (respect it please). once US seller in Ebay said his keris has genie (please respect it). buy it if you belive, don't buy it if you don't. gitu saja kok repot ( please take it easy).

one day one said don't buy keris because of the magic or story (don't belive what he said as long as he is a javanese malay or other southeast asian) but you must respect it.

one day US seller on Ebay said that his keris has genie and other said " guinea or pig or hog" please don't condamed it but respect it

but one who said org , pig or guinea is hog itself. Respect it.

but the important is please respect each other so that keris can't killed human being but keris is loved by humanbeing. belive it.....

The man belive god as their savior and respect the keris as the masterpiece is not the pig or guinea (One said) but the wise man who belive there is other power exept our fool brain, please respect and belive it.

[David]

Lelang, your call for respect should be well heeded, however i do not see any lack of respect voiced in this thread. There are certainly many mysteries in the world and one would be foolish to scoff outright at the possibilities. I personal try to keep an open mind while still maintaining a touch of skepticim lest i become someone elses fool. Unfortunately the realm of magick and mysticism has become a tool for the unscrupulous and (in some cases) criminal. For me it is not a matter of whether or not the keris can hold a mystical or magickal current. The question for me is does THIS keris that someone is trying to sell to me hold any such energy or am i just being treated to a nonsense story to grab my interest and convince me that i should buy the keris. Unfortunately most often i fear this is the case when we read about "powerful" keris being sold at auction. Faith is a beautiful thing and i truly respect it and the rights of others to believe whatever they see fit. Blind faith, however, leads to gulibility, and many people have been taken in this way over the years. The story that Alan Maisey has revealled here is a true one. He knows the inside story on this particular deal and the fact remains that this buyer was fooled. If one wants to believe something someone will always find a way to prove it to them, even if it isn't so, if there is money to be made. Those who choose not to question are easily fooled. An open mind must flow both ways. This story does not teach us that we should not believe that a keris can fly, just that keris did not.

[Montino Bourbon]

In my musical teachings I explain that the voice is so powerful that I can even move things with my voice. People of course think that I am going to make something move in front of them without anyone touching it.

Later I ask someone to get me a glass of water, and when I have it in my hand I explain the obvious; that I used my voice to move something.

So yes, the keris did 'fly home'.

It's like the value of art; a piece of canvas with oil paint on it is worth millions because somebody says that it is.

Is it worth it to you? that's the question. And if the value includes things that only you can see, that's the value to you.

[David]

Well put Montino. Haven't seen you around much lately. Nice to hear from you again.

[A. G. Maisey]

The "Flying Keris" is only one of many stories that I know about the realities of "magic".

However, I also know of really inexplicable things, such as the ability of a member of my family to know of things happening in distant places before being told. For instance, the death of somebody a long way away, and how it happened.

There are things that cannot be explained logically, and there are also things that can be made to appear to be inexplicable.

As for the voice, well, as today's calendar page tells me:- "The power of life and death lay within the voice."

[josh stout]

The relationship between real power and tricks is more blurred in Indonesia than it is in America where we acknowledge one or the other. I watched a pendekar show a crowd of tourists how a magical stone could protect him from being cut. He showed us his arm shaking as the power entered him, then he chopped his arm with a golok. As he chopped, he kicked the sofa he was sitting on so it made a loud thump. The golok did not cut him, but left a line where it had hit. We would dismiss this as a trick. The shaking arm was showmanship, and kicking the sofa hid the fact that the chop was without power. However, I watched carefully, and while there was a trick, what he showed was quite real. It was a good solid strike to his arm. He new he was putting on a show, but he also believed in his own power. That power was not superhuman, but still took some skill. Later when the tourists left, he used the stone magic to fill his students with their movements. While this could be seen as more trickery, the effect on the students was real. Their movements were good, and unselfconscious bordering on trancelike. Where is the trick? Is it the show that builds the belief, the true belief that filled his students, or the real ability that the students demonstrated? Like many Americans, I tend to think that if I spot a trick, then the whole activity is suspect. In Indonesia, the trick is often beside the point, and expected. People with magical power often combine slight of hand, showmanship, carefully honed skills in reading body language, hypnotism, and faith healing using the placebo effect to accomplish amazing things. We should not forget that what appears to be trickery can involve great skill, and have real effects.
Josh

[NotoriousCal]

Originally Posted by David

Lelang, your call for respect should be well heeded, however i do not see any lack of respect voiced in this thread. There are certainly many mysteries in the world and one would be foolish to scoff outright at the possibilities. I personal try to keep an open mind while still maintaining a touch of skepticim lest i become someone elses fool. Unfortunately the realm of magick and mysticism has become a tool for the unscrupulous and (in some cases) criminal. For me it is not a matter of whether or not the keris can hold a mystical or magickal current. The question for me is does THIS keris that someone is trying to sell to me hold any such energy or am i just being treated to a nonsense story to grab my interest and convince me that i should buy the keris. Unfortunately most often i fear this is the case when we read about "powerful" keris being sold at auction. Faith is a beautiful thing and i truly respect it and the rights of others to believe whatever they see fit. Blind faith, however, leads to gulibility, and many people have been taken in this way over the years. The story that Alan Maisey has revealled here is a true one. He knows the inside story on this particular deal and the fact remains that this buyer was fooled. If one wants to believe something someone will always find a way to prove it to them, even if it isn't so, if there is money to be made. Those who choose not to question are easily fooled. An open mind must flow both ways. This story does not teach us that we should not believe that a keris can fly, just that keris did not.

I appreciate your comments and I strongly agree.

[NotoriousCal]

Originally Posted by lelang69

magic, genie, angel, god, flying keris, walking keris whatelse belive it or not or dummy or fool

loving god (magical power) and his propet is amazing faith ( I belive in god very much), is it dummy or fool?

according to me please respect the defference belive or faith. someone belive that keris can fly (respect it). malay, javanese and other southeast asia belive keris has magical power (respect it please). once US seller in Ebay said his keris has genie (please respect it). buy it if you belive, don't buy it if you don't. gitu saja kok repot ( please take it easy).

one day one said don't buy keris because of the magic or story (don't belive what he said as long as he is a javanese malay or other southeast asian) but you must respect it.

one day US seller on Ebay said that his keris has genie and other said " guinea or pig or hog" please don't condamed it but respect it

but one who said org , pig or guinea is hog itself. Respect it.

but the important is please respect each other so that keris can't killed human being but keris is loved by humanbeing. belive it.....

The man belive god as their savior and respect the keris as the masterpiece is not the pig or guinea (One said) but the wise man who belive there is other power exept our fool brain, please respect and belive it.

I have to question your motives behind your statements.
There are always times in life where one has to cast judgment. Your approach seems to be motivated by a shared belief. I'm looking for an objective opinion when looking for truth. Beliefs don't concern me at all when facts and hard earned money is concerned. Beliefs are not tangible but money is. By your comments I don't expect you to understand this.
If there where such objects that can bestow blessings, why do sellers sell them for money? Seems very deceptive and I don't respect deception.

[zeus74]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_3tpNii7k

[David]

Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

[Jean]

Nylon wires and puppeters?

[kronckew]

magnets

[zeus74]

Originally Posted by David

Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

this is nothing. maybe it's just a trick or somewhat.. there's story in java, when majapahit storming keraton giri gresik the kris of sunan giri which have dapur kalamunyeng flying attacking the invaders.

[David]

Originally Posted by zeus74

this is nothing. maybe it's just a trick or somewhat.. there's story in java, when majapahit storming keraton giri gresik the kris of sunan giri which have dapur kalamunyeng flying attacking the invaders.

Zeus, belief is a powerful thing and it certain drives a great deal of the mystical side of keris culture. That said, i can almost (for how can one be absolutely sure about anything) guarantee that what is shown on this video is indeed a trick. I know numerous stage magicians who could do this trick even better. There are indeed many legends surrounding keris, some of which deal with flying. It makes little sense to discuss these legends here, however, as they will never be proven as fact or be seen as anything beyond legend or speculation. Legend surrounds blades in many other cultures as well. There is the wonderful legend of King Arthur pulling the sword Excalibur from the stone for one. Here is a list of "magic" weapons from all around the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_magical_weapons
These are great stories to tell our children, but what do they actually teach us about keris, it's intention, purpose or place in society and culture?
I have deleted all of you other posts in the moderation queue Zeus. Your first one was a link to a commercial Facebook site where people seem to be trying to sell mostly poorly identified low quality keris. Please understand that we are NOT a commercial site and if you have read the rules of this forum you would know that posting links to commercial pages here is strictly forbidden.
I deleted you other posts with links to youtube videos that you marked a "entertainment" because some had absolutely nothing to do with keris while others were more unprovable mystical entries, such as the man supposedly using keris and magic to mysteriously locate a hidden keris blade buried under a rock. The most obvious possibility being that he buried it there himself to be "magically" discovered later, no?
Please understand that it is not that we outright dismiss the mystical side of keris culture and philosophy here, but videos like the ones you were attempting to share for "entertainment" value are not the kind of things that are of any value for serious study of the keris. And any commercial links are completely unacceptable on this page. Thanks for understanding.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by David

Z... There is the wonderful legend of King Arthur pulling the sword Excalibur from the stone for one. ...

...which makes more sense if you consider it a leftover from an earlier legend from the bronze age when they DID 'pull swords out of the stone' molds.

[Pusaka]

I dont believe keris can fly but I do believe they can rattle.