The Flying Keris

rasdan · 23rd February 2007, 03:53 AM

IMHO, the keris itself dont have any power. Its just an object. The problem is caused by these entities and human being themselves. As a Muslim, i will always believe in the "cant be seen" stuff. But one thing to remember, human are superior than them and in now way they can harm you without god's willing. We report directly to God, there is no need for a third party participation. Humans can do a lot more damage.

A. G. Maisey · 23rd February 2007, 05:09 AM

As somebody of Celtic bloodlines on both sides of my family, and three generations removed from pure Irish peasantry, I also do have a strong belief in the unseen. I grew up believing that bunches of garlic over the doors and windows kept out evil spirits. Spilt salt? An invitation to the devil.

However, how can any rational man believe that something made by man can possess a power above the power of God?

Even the existence of spirits, which would be difficult to deny, seems to be mostly, or perhaps always, associated with human emotion.

Then there is the factor of the communal sub-conscious.

Yes, the unseen is there, but can it harm you? Only if you believe it can.

Now, as for flying keris, as Shahrial says,there are many of these stories, but the cautionary thing is this:- stories like this can be laughed at in retrospect, however, when you are involved in them first hand, and the sandiwara is skilfully presented, it is a rare person who will not be taken in. The businessman in my story was and still is a very successful man. Now probably in his 70's, Chinese, and very hardnosed.Definitely nobody's fool. But he got sucked in and carried along just the same.

One of the things that I find particularly interesting are the ways in which some purveyors of keris have adapted their styles to the electronic medium. It is one thing take somebody for a ride when you are face to face. It is something else entirely to be able to do it over the net. Lew's example in another thread was a fairly unpolished presentation, but some of the more refined people can create magic ( of a different kind).

kronckew · 23rd February 2007, 01:27 PM

the keris after all was said DID return to it's 'rightfull' owner, didn't it. the magic worked. it needed to use a kid on a motorcycle tho.

David · 23rd February 2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

IMHO, the keris itself dont have any power. Its just an object. The problem is caused by these entities and human being themselves. As a Muslim, i will always believe in the "cant be seen" stuff. But one thing to remember, human are superior than them and in now way they can harm you without god's willing. We report directly to God, there is no need for a third party participation. Humans can do a lot more damage.

Well put Rasdan. I am not a Muslim, but this world view crosses both cultural and religious lines. I too have long been a believer in the the "unseen" worlds and have had my own personal experiences which have proved to me that such worlds and entities exist. But i also believe that true power resides within us as it is channeled through us from a higher source.
I have also had the pleasure of having a number of close friends who are fantastic stage magicians. Any one of them could easily make a keris appear to fly, disappear from one place and appear in another, draw water from it's blade or any one of the many feats often attributed in stories to "powerful" keris and you or i in audience to these events would never catch the tricks they use to produce these effects. The difference is that these magicians will openly tell you that they are using a trick (though they will never show you how they do it

). This is not to say that i do not believe that the keris is truly a deeply spiritual and magickal tool. But IMO parlor tricks is not the essence of the magick held within the keris.
We humans are also constantly looking for excuses for our behavior or reasons for why things happen to us. Some one in a previous thread mentioned that they know of a man whose keris forced him to give it his wife (though i'm not sure exactly how that works

). This is sort of a form of the "the devil made me do it" syndrome. It is so much easier for us to simply blame our actions or troubles on a cursed keris than to take responsibility and own up.

rasdan · 23rd February 2007, 03:57 PM

Yeah David, cant blame somebody else on something you yourself did. But when you had sold your soul to the devil, well.. things aint going to be easy to explain..

A. G. Maisey · 23rd February 2007, 10:04 PM

The whole "magic keris" business falls within the ambit of beliefs surrounding sorcery, witchcraft and magic in general. As an object it need be no more "magical" than any other object.

The magical object in South East Asian societies gains its power from cultural and social structure and beliefs. Where this "magic" spills over into European cultures it is because the South East Asian beliefs have influenced the European beliefs.

An excellent book which may give a little insight into these matters as they are placed in SE Asian societies is :- "Understanding Witchcraft and Sorcery in Southeast Asia"---Watson and Ellen, Uni Hawaii Press, 1993.

lelang69 · 24th March 2007, 06:33 PM

magic, genie, angel, god, flying keris, walking keris whatelse belive it or not or dummy or fool

loving god (magical power) and his propet is amazing faith ( I belive in god very much), is it dummy or fool?

according to me please respect the defference belive or faith. someone belive that keris can fly (respect it). malay, javanese and other southeast asia belive keris has magical power (respect it please). once US seller in Ebay said his keris has genie (please respect it). buy it if you belive, don't buy it if you don't. gitu saja kok repot ( please take it easy).

one day one said don't buy keris because of the magic or story (don't belive what he said as long as he is a javanese malay or other southeast asian) but you must respect it.

one day US seller on Ebay said that his keris has genie and other said " guinea or pig or hog" please don't condamed it but respect it

but one who said org , pig or guinea is hog itself. Respect it.

but the important is please respect each other so that keris can't killed human being but keris is loved by humanbeing. belive it.....

The man belive god as their savior and respect the keris as the masterpiece is not the pig or guinea (One said) but the wise man who belive there is other power exept our fool brain, please respect and belive it.

David · 24th March 2007, 11:33 PM

Lelang, your call for respect should be well heeded, however i do not see any lack of respect voiced in this thread. There are certainly many mysteries in the world and one would be foolish to scoff outright at the possibilities. I personal try to keep an open mind while still maintaining a touch of skepticim lest i become someone elses fool. Unfortunately the realm of magick and mysticism has become a tool for the unscrupulous and (in some cases) criminal. For me it is not a matter of whether or not the keris can hold a mystical or magickal current. The question for me is does THIS keris that someone is trying to sell to me hold any such energy or am i just being treated to a nonsense story to grab my interest and convince me that i should buy the keris. Unfortunately most often i fear this is the case when we read about "powerful" keris being sold at auction. Faith is a beautiful thing and i truly respect it and the rights of others to believe whatever they see fit. Blind faith, however, leads to gulibility, and many people have been taken in this way over the years. The story that Alan Maisey has revealled here is a true one. He knows the inside story on this particular deal and the fact remains that this buyer was fooled. If one wants to believe something someone will always find a way to prove it to them, even if it isn't so, if there is money to be made. Those who choose not to question are easily fooled. An open mind must flow both ways. This story does not teach us that we should not believe that a keris can fly, just that keris did not.

Montino Bourbon · 25th March 2007, 04:15 PM

In my musical teachings I explain that the voice is so powerful that I can even move things with my voice. People of course think that I am going to make something move in front of them without anyone touching it.

Later I ask someone to get me a glass of water, and when I have it in my hand I explain the obvious; that I used my voice to move something.

So yes, the keris did 'fly home'.

It's like the value of art; a piece of canvas with oil paint on it is worth millions because somebody says that it is.

Is it worth it to you? that's the question. And if the value includes things that only you can see, that's the value to you.

NotoriousCal · 23rd September 2016, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Lelang, your call for respect should be well heeded, however i do not see any lack of respect voiced in this thread. There are certainly many mysteries in the world and one would be foolish to scoff outright at the possibilities. I personal try to keep an open mind while still maintaining a touch of skepticim lest i become someone elses fool. Unfortunately the realm of magick and mysticism has become a tool for the unscrupulous and (in some cases) criminal. For me it is not a matter of whether or not the keris can hold a mystical or magickal current. The question for me is does THIS keris that someone is trying to sell to me hold any such energy or am i just being treated to a nonsense story to grab my interest and convince me that i should buy the keris. Unfortunately most often i fear this is the case when we read about "powerful" keris being sold at auction. Faith is a beautiful thing and i truly respect it and the rights of others to believe whatever they see fit. Blind faith, however, leads to gulibility, and many people have been taken in this way over the years. The story that Alan Maisey has revealled here is a true one. He knows the inside story on this particular deal and the fact remains that this buyer was fooled. If one wants to believe something someone will always find a way to prove it to them, even if it isn't so, if there is money to be made. Those who choose not to question are easily fooled. An open mind must flow both ways. This story does not teach us that we should not believe that a keris can fly, just that keris did not.

I appreciate your comments and I strongly agree.

NotoriousCal · 23rd September 2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lelang69

magic, genie, angel, god, flying keris, walking keris whatelse belive it or not or dummy or fool

loving god (magical power) and his propet is amazing faith ( I belive in god very much), is it dummy or fool?

according to me please respect the defference belive or faith. someone belive that keris can fly (respect it). malay, javanese and other southeast asia belive keris has magical power (respect it please). once US seller in Ebay said his keris has genie (please respect it). buy it if you belive, don't buy it if you don't. gitu saja kok repot ( please take it easy).

one day one said don't buy keris because of the magic or story (don't belive what he said as long as he is a javanese malay or other southeast asian) but you must respect it.

one day US seller on Ebay said that his keris has genie and other said " guinea or pig or hog" please don't condamed it but respect it

but one who said org , pig or guinea is hog itself. Respect it.

but the important is please respect each other so that keris can't killed human being but keris is loved by humanbeing. belive it.....

The man belive god as their savior and respect the keris as the masterpiece is not the pig or guinea (One said) but the wise man who belive there is other power exept our fool brain, please respect and belive it.

I have to question your motives behind your statements.
There are always times in life where one has to cast judgment. Your approach seems to be motivated by a shared belief. I'm looking for an objective opinion when looking for truth. Beliefs don't concern me at all when facts and hard earned money is concerned. Beliefs are not tangible but money is. By your comments I don't expect you to understand this.
If there where such objects that can bestow blessings, why do sellers sell them for money? Seems very deceptive and I don't respect deception.

zeus74 · 18th December 2016, 12:51 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_3tpNii7k

David · 18th December 2016, 09:08 PM

Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

Jean · 19th December 2016, 10:34 AM

Nylon wires and puppeters?

zeus74 · 1st January 2017, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

this is nothing. maybe it's just a trick or somewhat.. there's story in java, when majapahit storming keraton giri gresik the kris of sunan giri which have dapur kalamunyeng flying attacking the invaders.

25th March 2007, 04:15 PM	#9
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	We overlook the simplest 'miracles'... In my musical teachings I explain that the voice is so powerful that I can even move things with my voice. People of course think that I am going to make something move in front of them without anyone touching it. Later I ask someone to get me a glass of water, and when I have it in my hand I explain the obvious; that I used my voice to move something. So yes, the keris did 'fly home'. It's like the value of art; a piece of canvas with oil paint on it is worth millions because somebody says that it is. Is it worth it to you? that's the question. And if the value includes things that only you can see, that's the value to you.

23rd February 2007, 03:53 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	IMHO, the keris itself dont have any power. Its just an object. The problem is caused by these entities and human being themselves. As a Muslim, i will always believe in the "cant be seen" stuff. But one thing to remember, human are superior than them and in now way they can harm you without god's willing. We report directly to God, there is no need for a third party participation. Humans can do a lot more damage.

23rd February 2007, 05:09 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	As somebody of Celtic bloodlines on both sides of my family, and three generations removed from pure Irish peasantry, I also do have a strong belief in the unseen. I grew up believing that bunches of garlic over the doors and windows kept out evil spirits. Spilt salt? An invitation to the devil. However, how can any rational man believe that something made by man can possess a power above the power of God? Even the existence of spirits, which would be difficult to deny, seems to be mostly, or perhaps always, associated with human emotion. Then there is the factor of the communal sub-conscious. Yes, the unseen is there, but can it harm you? Only if you believe it can. Now, as for flying keris, as Shahrial says,there are many of these stories, but the cautionary thing is this:- stories like this can be laughed at in retrospect, however, when you are involved in them first hand, and the sandiwara is skilfully presented, it is a rare person who will not be taken in. The businessman in my story was and still is a very successful man. Now probably in his 70's, Chinese, and very hardnosed.Definitely nobody's fool. But he got sucked in and carried along just the same. One of the things that I find particularly interesting are the ways in which some purveyors of keris have adapted their styles to the electronic medium. It is one thing take somebody for a ride when you are face to face. It is something else entirely to be able to do it over the net. Lew's example in another thread was a fairly unpolished presentation, but some of the more refined people can create magic ( of a different kind).

23rd February 2007, 01:27 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	the keris after all was said DID return to it's 'rightfull' owner, didn't it. the magic worked. it needed to use a kid on a motorcycle tho.

23rd February 2007, 03:57 PM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Yeah David, cant blame somebody else on something you yourself did. But when you had sold your soul to the devil, well.. things aint going to be easy to explain..

23rd February 2007, 10:04 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	The whole "magic keris" business falls within the ambit of beliefs surrounding sorcery, witchcraft and magic in general. As an object it need be no more "magical" than any other object. The magical object in South East Asian societies gains its power from cultural and social structure and beliefs. Where this "magic" spills over into European cultures it is because the South East Asian beliefs have influenced the European beliefs. An excellent book which may give a little insight into these matters as they are placed in SE Asian societies is :- "Understanding Witchcraft and Sorcery in Southeast Asia"---Watson and Ellen, Uni Hawaii Press, 1993.

24th March 2007, 06:33 PM	#7
lelang69 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 60	magic, genie, angel, god, flying keris, walking keris whatelse belive it or not or dummy or fool loving god (magical power) and his propet is amazing faith ( I belive in god very much), is it dummy or fool? according to me please respect the defference belive or faith. someone belive that keris can fly (respect it). malay, javanese and other southeast asia belive keris has magical power (respect it please). once US seller in Ebay said his keris has genie (please respect it). buy it if you belive, don't buy it if you don't. gitu saja kok repot ( please take it easy). one day one said don't buy keris because of the magic or story (don't belive what he said as long as he is a javanese malay or other southeast asian) but you must respect it. one day US seller on Ebay said that his keris has genie and other said " guinea or pig or hog" please don't condamed it but respect it but one who said org , pig or guinea is hog itself. Respect it. but the important is please respect each other so that keris can't killed human being but keris is loved by humanbeing. belive it..... The man belive god as their savior and respect the keris as the masterpiece is not the pig or guinea (One said) but the wise man who belive there is other power exept our fool brain, please respect and belive it.

24th March 2007, 11:33 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Lelang, your call for respect should be well heeded, however i do not see any lack of respect voiced in this thread. There are certainly many mysteries in the world and one would be foolish to scoff outright at the possibilities. I personal try to keep an open mind while still maintaining a touch of skepticim lest i become someone elses fool. Unfortunately the realm of magick and mysticism has become a tool for the unscrupulous and (in some cases) criminal. For me it is not a matter of whether or not the keris can hold a mystical or magickal current. The question for me is does THIS keris that someone is trying to sell to me hold any such energy or am i just being treated to a nonsense story to grab my interest and convince me that i should buy the keris. Unfortunately most often i fear this is the case when we read about "powerful" keris being sold at auction. Faith is a beautiful thing and i truly respect it and the rights of others to believe whatever they see fit. Blind faith, however, leads to gulibility, and many people have been taken in this way over the years. The story that Alan Maisey has revealled here is a true one. He knows the inside story on this particular deal and the fact remains that this buyer was fooled. If one wants to believe something someone will always find a way to prove it to them, even if it isn't so, if there is money to be made. Those who choose not to question are easily fooled. An open mind must flow both ways. This story does not teach us that we should not believe that a keris can fly, just that keris did not.

18th December 2016, 12:51 AM	#12
zeus74 Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 7	https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_3tpNii7k

18th December 2016, 09:08 PM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Zeus, should i read your use of the tongue-out emoticon to mean that you present this video as a joke or as serious proof of flying keris.

19th December 2016, 10:34 AM	#14
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Nylon wires and puppeters?