Choora-- Pesh Kabz-- Definition

ariel · 21st February 2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBJW

I was told this story years ago and have always been curious about it. An Englishman was cataloging blades in the Afghanistan area in the early 1900s. He asked his native helper to hand him the next blade and the Afghan said "choora". The name stuck. I have a friend working in Afghanistan right now and I asked him to ask their interpreter what "choora" means. I received this Sunday 2-18. Choora means roughly to be emasculated. It is a derogatory term to tell someone that he cannot be with a woman as he has lost his manhood. It is the same word in Farsi, Pashtu, and Dari.

Cheers
bbjw

In your PM to me you indicated that "choora" is " next" and that the mis-naming this dagger in European catalogues resulted from a comic misunderstanding.
Now we venture into something malevolent: castration, mutilation...
Which version is correct?

BBJW · 21st February 2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

In your PM to me you indicated that "choora" is " next" and that the mis-naming this dagger in European catalogues resulted from a comic misunderstanding.
Now we venture into something malevolent: castration, mutilation...
Which version is correct?

I had been given "choora" to mean "next" or "another". A friend of mine is now in Afghanistan so I asked him to ask his interpreter and that is what I found out. So I thought it interesting and posted the thread.

bbjw

ham · 21st February 2007, 04:25 PM

The gentleman in question was Lord Egerton of Tatton. Heard that story many years ago and it may well be true.

Ham

spiral · 21st February 2007, 05:00 PM

I guess another possible variable is whether Lord Eggerton helper was Afghani or Indian? {I would imagine most of his staff would be Indian?}

Choora is also used in India by Hindus as a derogatory term meaning, "low class" often used offensivly against people of lower castes/ class, or of course even "untouchables"

So perhaps Eggerton asked his Indian assitant "whats this?" & was told it was ""low class" the equivalent of "junk" perhaps?

Spiral

Berkley · 21st February 2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

The gentleman in question was Lord Egerton of Tatton

Interesting, as the word "choora" does not appear in the index or, so far as I can tell, the text of Egerton's Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour, although the term "Peshkabz" appears several times.

ariel · 21st February 2007, 10:03 PM

It is also called Shotor Kosh in Iran: "Camel Killer" or close to that.
Any funny stories about that name?

katana · 22nd February 2007, 12:59 AM

Interesting thread...it does make you wonder how many other weapons may have gained a 'universal' name because of mistakes in translation/ language difficulties, or as a result of a name given to a weapon that perhaps was very localised to a small area (and that person was asked by the 'researcher' what 'it' was) but had a different more common name over the entire region.

I think, if the 'story' of how the choora was so named, is true. It seems likely that this would be because of language difficulties, (or an abusive interpretor

)

If this knife was used for catration

surely there would be documented evidence.....AFAIK knights had a dagger called a bollock knife, it was used to pierce the relatively unprotected groin area......could this be perhaps a possibility in the manner it was used

21st February 2007, 04:25 PM	#3
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	The gentleman in question was Lord Egerton of Tatton. Heard that story many years ago and it may well be true. Ham

21st February 2007, 05:00 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I guess another possible variable is whether Lord Eggerton helper was Afghani or Indian? {I would imagine most of his staff would be Indian?} Choora is also used in India by Hindus as a derogatory term meaning, "low class" often used offensivly against people of lower castes/ class, or of course even "untouchables" So perhaps Eggerton asked his Indian assitant "whats this?" & was told it was ""low class" the equivalent of "junk" perhaps? Spiral

21st February 2007, 10:03 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is also called Shotor Kosh in Iran: "Camel Killer" or close to that. Any funny stories about that name?

22nd February 2007, 12:59 AM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Interesting thread...it does make you wonder how many other weapons may have gained a 'universal' name because of mistakes in translation/ language difficulties, or as a result of a name given to a weapon that perhaps was very localised to a small area (and that person was asked by the 'researcher' what 'it' was) but had a different more common name over the entire region. I think, if the 'story' of how the choora was so named, is true. It seems likely that this would be because of language difficulties, (or an abusive interpretor ) If this knife was used for catration surely there would be documented evidence.....AFAIK knights had a dagger called a bollock knife, it was used to pierce the relatively unprotected groin area......could this be perhaps a possibility in the manner it was used