Indo persian ? Arabic curved 'working' knife

Emanuel · 14th February 2007, 05:00 PM

Oops, I had missed the description of the spine and concave edge.

It still makes it an interesting looking bank.

Emanuel

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2007, 05:29 AM

In an interesting entry in Van Zonneveld ("Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, Leiden, 2001) a weapon similar to these is shown as a 'lawa ayam' and used in Sumatra and Java (p.82).

It is noted here that these were used in a stabbing upward fashion, and causing atrocious injuries, suggesting that a ripping type movement was implemented with the extremely curved blade.

Not a pleasant thought, but thought this might respond to the possible manner of use.

Best regards,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 15th February 2007, 09:55 AM

Well done Jim, could you, or anyone else who have the book, show us a picture of the knife?

Does the dagger you refer to have a mid rib, is it pointed, and does it have the same curve as the one Katana shows?

The half pommel on Katana’s dagger seems to be turning the wrong way, unless it was meant for support of the back of the hand when used in an upward cut. What bothers me a bit is the missing point on Katana’s dagger, as it would need to be pointed, should it be used as you describe. Of the two shown in post #4, I think only the one to the right could be used for an upward cut, as the one to the left seems to be too curved.

Robert · 15th February 2007, 01:57 PM

To me because of the way this knife is designed (with a rounded tip) the only way that I could see it being used as a weapon would be to sneak up behind someone slip it around the neck and with one quick pull......Ouch!!

Were any knives designed for this particular purpose?

Robert

katana · 15th February 2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

To me because of the way this knife is designed (with a rounded tip) the only way that I could see it being used as a weapon would be to sneak up behind someone slip it around the neck and with one quick pull......Ouch!!

Robert

I am inclined to agree.......perhaps the rounded tip and the unsharped outer edge allow the left hand to apply further pressure or control once the blade is against the throat of the victim

Or perhaps an animal slaughter knife..........or both

Tim Simmons · 15th February 2007, 05:14 PM

An air/sea rescue knife

now that is just being silly

a knife for sacrifice sounds quite possible. Perhaps the basis of the late Victorian and modern day fantasists occult knife. Burton got a frisson from this sort of thing. I believe his wife burnt a lot of his stuff on his demise.

VANDOO · 15th February 2007, 05:45 PM

THIS DESIGN WOULD WORK WELL FOR CUTTING THRU REIGNS OR HARNESS ON RIDING ANIMALS OR ROPES, ECT. IT COULD FUNCTION FOR CUTTING A THROAT BUT SO CAN MORE COMMON SHAPED BLADES WITH MUCH LESS CURVE AND THEY COULD ALSO SERVE MUCH BETTER IN A FIGHT. THEY WOULD WORK WELL TO HOOK INTO SOMEONE AND THE MORE THEY PULLED AWAY THE DEEPER IT WOULD CUT SO YOU COULD PULL THEM TOWARD ANOTHER WEAPON. I USED TO KNOW A FELLOW WHO CARRIED A KNIFE KIND OF CURVED LIKE A CARPET KNIFE ,HE REFERED TO IT AS HIS "COME HITHER KNIFE" SAYING IF THEY TRYED TO RUN AWAY IT WOULD HOOK IN AND CUT DEEPER UNTIL THE WOULD COME HITHER.

JUST MY THOUGHTS ON IT BUT IT PROBABLY HAD SOME SPECIAL REASON OR MEANING TO THE GROUP CARRIENG THEM UNKNOWN TO ME AND HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE BLADE WOULD FUNCTION IN USE.

14th February 2007, 05:00 PM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Oops, I had missed the description of the spine and concave edge. It still makes it an interesting looking bank. Emanuel

15th February 2007, 05:29 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,458	In an interesting entry in Van Zonneveld ("Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago, Leiden, 2001) a weapon similar to these is shown as a 'lawa ayam' and used in Sumatra and Java (p.82). It is noted here that these were used in a stabbing upward fashion, and causing atrocious injuries, suggesting that a ripping type movement was implemented with the extremely curved blade. Not a pleasant thought, but thought this might respond to the possible manner of use. Best regards, Jim

15th February 2007, 09:55 AM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Well done Jim, could you, or anyone else who have the book, show us a picture of the knife? Does the dagger you refer to have a mid rib, is it pointed, and does it have the same curve as the one Katana shows? The half pommel on Katana’s dagger seems to be turning the wrong way, unless it was meant for support of the back of the hand when used in an upward cut. What bothers me a bit is the missing point on Katana’s dagger, as it would need to be pointed, should it be used as you describe. Of the two shown in post #4, I think only the one to the right could be used for an upward cut, as the one to the left seems to be too curved.

15th February 2007, 01:57 PM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	To me because of the way this knife is designed (with a rounded tip) the only way that I could see it being used as a weapon would be to sneak up behind someone slip it around the neck and with one quick pull......Ouch!! Were any knives designed for this particular purpose? Robert

15th February 2007, 05:14 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	An air/sea rescue knife now that is just being silly a knife for sacrifice sounds quite possible. Perhaps the basis of the late Victorian and modern day fantasists occult knife. Burton got a frisson from this sort of thing. I believe his wife burnt a lot of his stuff on his demise.

15th February 2007, 05:45 PM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS DESIGN WOULD WORK WELL FOR CUTTING THRU REIGNS OR HARNESS ON RIDING ANIMALS OR ROPES, ECT. IT COULD FUNCTION FOR CUTTING A THROAT BUT SO CAN MORE COMMON SHAPED BLADES WITH MUCH LESS CURVE AND THEY COULD ALSO SERVE MUCH BETTER IN A FIGHT. THEY WOULD WORK WELL TO HOOK INTO SOMEONE AND THE MORE THEY PULLED AWAY THE DEEPER IT WOULD CUT SO YOU COULD PULL THEM TOWARD ANOTHER WEAPON. I USED TO KNOW A FELLOW WHO CARRIED A KNIFE KIND OF CURVED LIKE A CARPET KNIFE ,HE REFERED TO IT AS HIS "COME HITHER KNIFE" SAYING IF THEY TRYED TO RUN AWAY IT WOULD HOOK IN AND CUT DEEPER UNTIL THE WOULD COME HITHER. JUST MY THOUGHTS ON IT BUT IT PROBABLY HAD SOME SPECIAL REASON OR MEANING TO THE GROUP CARRIENG THEM UNKNOWN TO ME AND HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW THE BLADE WOULD FUNCTION IN USE.