Kampilan with unusual Thalassic guard form

VANDOO · 13th February 2007, 09:21 PM

KAMPILIAN ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MORO BUT I AM SURE THERE WERE SIMULAR SWORDS CARRIED BY OTHER GROUPS THRUOUT THE REGION. WHERE AND WHEN THEY ORIGINATED AND WHAT THE EARLY FORMS WERE LIKE AND WHICH TRIBES TRADITIONALY USED THEM IS UNKNOWN TO ME. I SUSPECT THEY EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER SWORD WITH A SIMULAR FORM PERHAPS LIKE THE TIBOLI OR BAGABO SWORDS OR DAYAK MANDAU.

THEY WERE A TRUE WAR SWORD AND NOT A TOOL OR JUST CARRIED AROUND EVERYDAY. THEY WERE ALSO CARRIED AT SPECIAL CEREMONYS OR COURT GATHERINGS AND PERHAPS THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR BODYGAURDS OF HIGH RANKING PEOPLE. I PERSONALLY ASSOCIATE THEM MOSTLY WITH COASTAL SEA FARING TRIBES OR THOSE LIVING ALONG THE RIVERS WITH ACCESS TO THE SEA. THE COMMON STYLIZED CROCODILE HEAD POMMELS WOULD ALSO POINT TO SEAFARING COMUNITYS VERSUS THOSE LIVING IN THE HIGHLANDS. THE FLORAL DECORATION IS QUITE COMMON PERHAPS FROM ISLAMIC INFLUENCES OR PERHAPS NOT

NOT KNOWING THE FIGHTING STYLES USED IT LEADS ME TO WONDER IF THEY WERE USED PRIMARLY ON LAND OR IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR BATTLES ON BOARD SHIPS?

Tim Simmons · 13th February 2007, 09:31 PM

I think there has been a tendency to make a hard border between communities in this area, that in earlier times did not fit modern nation state ideas. Rather like vast areas of Africa, called one thing by us and another by them so to speak.

Spunjer · 14th February 2007, 02:14 PM

.

<<<==== is that unusual?

LabanTayo · 14th February 2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

.

<<<==== is that unusual?

looks radioactive to me....thats kinda unusual.

Spunjer · 14th February 2007, 04:21 PM

ahhh, that explains it. previous owner worked at Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant...

Rick · 14th February 2007, 05:21 PM

Here's unusual; simple though .

Anyone seen brass guards before ?

Bill M · 14th February 2007, 05:53 PM

This one seems to be brass. Don't know how original it is to the handle. It was like it when I got it. From the additional holes, I would guess that some other guard was born with it.

My dog likes it.

This kampilan has a very strange feeling about it.

VANDOO · 14th February 2007, 05:57 PM

SPUNGER I HAVE BEEN WONDERING ABOUT THAT ONE PERHAPS YOU COULD DO A POST ON IT WITH GOOD PICTURES AND A DESCRIPTION OF MATERIALS USED AND YOUR GUESS AT AGE ECT. I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LIKE IT AND HAVE JUST BEEN GUESSING THAT IT HAS A CARVED BONE OR IVORY HANDLE

I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO GET A BETTER LOOK AS IT LOOKS LIKE A REALLY NEAT SWORD.

RICK I HAVE ONLY SEEN THE ONE CAST BRONZE GAURD I THINK IT WAS YOURS ON A OLD POST. I HAVE ONE WITH A BRASS GAURD MADE FROM A PIECE OF THICK BAR STOCK WITH A SIMPLE DESIGN CUT INTO IT.
MOST OF THE KAMPILIANS I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS DID NOT HAVE A METAL GAURD AT ALL. SOME HAD HOLES WHERE ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN OR THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD A CORD ATTACHED THERE AS IN THE EXAMPLE I POSTED ABOVE. MOST OF THE METAL GAURDS HAVE BEEN THE IRON ONES BENT INTO LOOPS BUT I HAVE SEEN A FEW WITH BRASS USED INSTEAD OF IRON.

I TEND TO THINK THAT THE METAL GAURDS CAME INTO FASHION DURING A CERTIAN PERIOD AND MAY HAVE WENT OUT OF FASHION AGAIN IN LATER TIMES. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THE HISTORY OF THE KAMPILIAN AS THERE HAVE SURELY BEEN QUITE A FEW CHANGES OVER TIME RIGHT UP UNTIL THE PRESENT. IN THE OLD CLASSIC POST ON THEM I HAD A PICTURE OF ONE WITH A SEA EAGLE POMMEL WHICH I WOULD GUESS TO BE WW2 OR LATER BUT A LATER EXAMPLE POSTED SOMEWHERE APPEARED TO BE A OLDER EXAMPLE. I ALSO HAD A VERY OLD ONE WITH A POMMEL SHAPED LIKE A HAND OR PALM LEAF OR SOMETHING, I SAW ONE OTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT STYLE BUT HAVE NOT SEEN ANY NEWER ONES USING THAT FORM. I ALSO WONDER IF WHALE BONE IS BEING CARVED TODAY FOR KAMPILIAN HANDLES AND FOR KERIS AS I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW VERY NICE HIGH END EXAMPLES IN RECENT YEARS BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE ANY COULD NOT GUESS AGE.

14th February 2007, 05:21 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Here's unusual; simple though . Anyone seen brass guards before ? Attached Images

14th February 2007, 05:53 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	This one seems to be brass. Don't know how original it is to the handle. It was like it when I got it. From the additional holes, I would guess that some other guard was born with it. My dog likes it. This kampilan has a very strange feeling about it. Attached Images

13th February 2007, 09:21 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	KAMPILIAN ARE MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE MORO BUT I AM SURE THERE WERE SIMULAR SWORDS CARRIED BY OTHER GROUPS THRUOUT THE REGION. WHERE AND WHEN THEY ORIGINATED AND WHAT THE EARLY FORMS WERE LIKE AND WHICH TRIBES TRADITIONALY USED THEM IS UNKNOWN TO ME. I SUSPECT THEY EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER SWORD WITH A SIMULAR FORM PERHAPS LIKE THE TIBOLI OR BAGABO SWORDS OR DAYAK MANDAU. THEY WERE A TRUE WAR SWORD AND NOT A TOOL OR JUST CARRIED AROUND EVERYDAY. THEY WERE ALSO CARRIED AT SPECIAL CEREMONYS OR COURT GATHERINGS AND PERHAPS THE WEAPON OF CHOICE FOR BODYGAURDS OF HIGH RANKING PEOPLE. I PERSONALLY ASSOCIATE THEM MOSTLY WITH COASTAL SEA FARING TRIBES OR THOSE LIVING ALONG THE RIVERS WITH ACCESS TO THE SEA. THE COMMON STYLIZED CROCODILE HEAD POMMELS WOULD ALSO POINT TO SEAFARING COMUNITYS VERSUS THOSE LIVING IN THE HIGHLANDS. THE FLORAL DECORATION IS QUITE COMMON PERHAPS FROM ISLAMIC INFLUENCES OR PERHAPS NOT NOT KNOWING THE FIGHTING STYLES USED IT LEADS ME TO WONDER IF THEY WERE USED PRIMARLY ON LAND OR IF THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR BATTLES ON BOARD SHIPS?

13th February 2007, 09:31 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I think there has been a tendency to make a hard border between communities in this area, that in earlier times did not fit modern nation state ideas. Rather like vast areas of Africa, called one thing by us and another by them so to speak.

14th February 2007, 02:14 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	. <<<==== is that unusual?

14th February 2007, 04:21 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ahhh, that explains it. previous owner worked at Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant...

14th February 2007, 05:57 PM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	SPUNGER I HAVE BEEN WONDERING ABOUT THAT ONE PERHAPS YOU COULD DO A POST ON IT WITH GOOD PICTURES AND A DESCRIPTION OF MATERIALS USED AND YOUR GUESS AT AGE ECT. I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE LIKE IT AND HAVE JUST BEEN GUESSING THAT IT HAS A CARVED BONE OR IVORY HANDLE I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO GET A BETTER LOOK AS IT LOOKS LIKE A REALLY NEAT SWORD. RICK I HAVE ONLY SEEN THE ONE CAST BRONZE GAURD I THINK IT WAS YOURS ON A OLD POST. I HAVE ONE WITH A BRASS GAURD MADE FROM A PIECE OF THICK BAR STOCK WITH A SIMPLE DESIGN CUT INTO IT. MOST OF THE KAMPILIANS I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS DID NOT HAVE A METAL GAURD AT ALL. SOME HAD HOLES WHERE ONE MIGHT HAVE BEEN OR THEY MIGHT HAVE HAD A CORD ATTACHED THERE AS IN THE EXAMPLE I POSTED ABOVE. MOST OF THE METAL GAURDS HAVE BEEN THE IRON ONES BENT INTO LOOPS BUT I HAVE SEEN A FEW WITH BRASS USED INSTEAD OF IRON. I TEND TO THINK THAT THE METAL GAURDS CAME INTO FASHION DURING A CERTIAN PERIOD AND MAY HAVE WENT OUT OF FASHION AGAIN IN LATER TIMES. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT THE HISTORY OF THE KAMPILIAN AS THERE HAVE SURELY BEEN QUITE A FEW CHANGES OVER TIME RIGHT UP UNTIL THE PRESENT. IN THE OLD CLASSIC POST ON THEM I HAD A PICTURE OF ONE WITH A SEA EAGLE POMMEL WHICH I WOULD GUESS TO BE WW2 OR LATER BUT A LATER EXAMPLE POSTED SOMEWHERE APPEARED TO BE A OLDER EXAMPLE. I ALSO HAD A VERY OLD ONE WITH A POMMEL SHAPED LIKE A HAND OR PALM LEAF OR SOMETHING, I SAW ONE OTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT STYLE BUT HAVE NOT SEEN ANY NEWER ONES USING THAT FORM. I ALSO WONDER IF WHALE BONE IS BEING CARVED TODAY FOR KAMPILIAN HANDLES AND FOR KERIS AS I HAVE SEEN QUITE A FEW VERY NICE HIGH END EXAMPLES IN RECENT YEARS BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE ANY COULD NOT GUESS AGE.