Riyadh's old Bazaar

S.Al-Anizi · 21st January 2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

There must be Tudor ie 1500s script and engraving to check against this blade on the internet. The way it is on the blade does look as if it is a little latter.

What if the 1510 is an Islamic number, would it then be England 2003. The way England is engraved does look rather modern.

It doesnt make sense to have an Islamic calendar date, against the word England. Besides, 1510 hijri is some 82 years in the future. There was a crown and a latin inscription on the hilt, which could have told me something about it, but I forgot to capture that

Tim Simmons · 21st January 2007, 12:34 PM

Okay that rule that out. I did not really under stand what I was doing on a calendar conversion site. The script and number not do look like they were done by a Tudor hand. Compere here and these are informal letters.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...WE:en%26sa%3DG

Tim Simmons · 21st January 2007, 12:54 PM

When I have time latter this evening I will scan some pictures of engraved lettering on 15-18th century blades.

S.Al-Anizi · 21st January 2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Okay that rule that out. I did not really under stand what I was doing on a calendar conversion site. The script and number do look like they were done by a Tudor hand. Compere here and these are informal letters.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...WE:en%26sa%3DG

I sure does look similar, especially to this letter: http://tudorhistory.org/letters/tidelarge2.jpg

although it is less cursive.

jmings · 21st January 2007, 02:21 PM

Thank you for your pictures and comment.

Are you of the opinion that in the Arab world swordmaking is going the way of Toledo and Thailand where once wonderfull and fantastic weapons are being driven out of the marketplace by ill-ballanced, ugly objects unfit even for gardening?

Tim Simmons · 21st January 2007, 04:21 PM

The ENGLAND 1510 sword looks the spitting image of the 1796 heavy cavalry pattern sword. This sword was in service for 30 years according to Swords of the British Army, The Regulation Patterns 1788 to 1914. Pictures of engraved lettering to follow.

Tim Simmons · 21st January 2007, 05:01 PM

I am having trouble finding pictures of British sword blades earlier than the late 1600s with English engraving on the back. These two pics from the late 1700s help show a more old style especially the numbers. I may well be terribly wrong but to me the engraving looks more modern on the 1510 sword. Clean and lacking any wear. If it is a 1796 sword than it is no wonder it feels good and it has been made into great looking weapon.

kronckew · 21st January 2007, 05:42 PM

Wow!

I spent a couple days in riyadh back in '95 when i had to get my visa for the UK, but never had a chance to go to the souk. i was working for M. Al-Mojil's construction co., out of Dammam at the time, after having worked for aramco in dhahran for 10 years. never saw any such fine specimens in the shops in al-khobar or dammam while i was there, saw a lot of expensive new swords in silver & gold mounts/scabbards but they never impressed me much, looked like 'dancing' swords, not real battle blades. i was not as knowledgeable then either....

thanks, shukran, siddiqi, for showing those to us.

S.Al-Anizi · 21st January 2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

The ENGLAND 1510 sword looks the spitting image of the 1796 heavy cavalry pattern sword. This sword was in service for 30 years according to Swords of the British Army, The Regulation Patterns 1788 to 1914. Pictures of engraved lettering to follow.

It sure looks almost identical to this sword. I guess it is the same blade. Still, I would not understand who would inscribe England 1510 in a tudor fashion on the spine.

S.Al-Anizi · 21st January 2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmings

Thank you for your pictures and comment.

Are you of the opinion that in the Arab world swordmaking is going the way of Toledo and Thailand where once wonderfull and fantastic weapons are being driven out of the marketplace by ill-ballanced, ugly objects unfit even for gardening?

You're welcome Jmings,

There never were any real bladesmithing tradition in arabia, except for mounting foreign blades with local hilts and scabbards, or so we may think right now. The area of arab arms and armour is probably the least explored in the field of arms and armour. If you would mean quality work, with old blades such as these, or the swords coming out of Ta'if, completely new, I would say yes, cheap Syrian junk is taking over the market. That is not to say that all newly made syrian stuff is bad, some are worthy being called swords. Its just that the bad stuff is driving quality out of the market.

21st January 2007, 12:34 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Okay that rule that out. I did not really under stand what I was doing on a calendar conversion site. The script and number not do look like they were done by a Tudor hand. Compere here and these are informal letters. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...WE:en%26sa%3DG Last edited by Tim Simmons; 21st January 2007 at 05:45 PM.

21st January 2007, 02:21 PM	#5
jmings Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Tebbetts, Missouri, USA Posts: 49	Thank you Thank you for your pictures and comment. Are you of the opinion that in the Arab world swordmaking is going the way of Toledo and Thailand where once wonderfull and fantastic weapons are being driven out of the marketplace by ill-ballanced, ugly objects unfit even for gardening?

21st January 2007, 12:54 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	When I have time latter this evening I will scan some pictures of engraved lettering on 15-18th century blades.

21st January 2007, 04:21 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	The ENGLAND 1510 sword looks the spitting image of the 1796 heavy cavalry pattern sword. This sword was in service for 30 years according to Swords of the British Army, The Regulation Patterns 1788 to 1914. Pictures of engraved lettering to follow.

21st January 2007, 05:01 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I am having trouble finding pictures of British sword blades earlier than the late 1600s with English engraving on the back. These two pics from the late 1700s help show a more old style especially the numbers. I may well be terribly wrong but to me the engraving looks more modern on the 1510 sword. Clean and lacking any wear. If it is a 1796 sword than it is no wonder it feels good and it has been made into great looking weapon.

21st January 2007, 05:42 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	Wow! I spent a couple days in riyadh back in '95 when i had to get my visa for the UK, but never had a chance to go to the souk. i was working for M. Al-Mojil's construction co., out of Dammam at the time, after having worked for aramco in dhahran for 10 years. never saw any such fine specimens in the shops in al-khobar or dammam while i was there, saw a lot of expensive new swords in silver & gold mounts/scabbards but they never impressed me much, looked like 'dancing' swords, not real battle blades. i was not as knowledgeable then either.... thanks, shukran, siddiqi, for showing those to us.