Riyadh's old Bazaar

fernando · 20th January 2007, 07:21 PM

Hi S.Al-Anizi
I envy your trip, and those beautyfull pictures taken at such marvellous places. Thanks a lot for showing.
I have read you kind offer in the other ( Riyadh Museum ) thread, and ask you to mail me a full size picture taken at the old Bazaar, the one under the title "A bunch of Jambiyas. Good news, none of these were stripped of their original, forged blades, as with ones coming out of Oman."
Would that be possible ?
Thanks a lot - Shukran gazilan
fernando
fernandoviana@netcabo.pt

S.Al-Anizi · 20th January 2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi S.Al-Anizi
I envy your trip, and those beautyfull pictures taken at such marvellous places. Thanks a lot for showing.
I have read you kind offer in the other ( Riyadh Museum ) thread, and ask you to mail me a full size picture taken at the old Bazaar, the one under the title "A bunch of Jambiyas. Good news, none of these were stripped of their original, forged blades, as with ones coming out of Oman."
Would that be possible ?
Thanks a lot - Shukran gazilan
fernando
fernandoviana@netcabo.pt

Right away

fernando · 20th January 2007, 10:49 PM

Picture received
Thank you ever so much, Sager.
fernando

S.Al-Anizi · 20th January 2007, 11:03 PM

Sheikh Nasir Al-Sufayyan, Abu Bandar, an old man with 50 years of expertise at hand, in the field of swords, jambiyas, and spears, and in general, anything traditional. He is a very old man, a person who knows how things were done, and the names of things 'back then', a true historian and knowledgebase, in the field of arab history and culture. He works in silver, gold, welding, and everything related in the job of swordsmithing, except making the blade itself. His reason for that, is that it isnt worth the effort, costs, and time making a blade, when the market for newly made blades is low, and most people keep swords passed down from generations, and maintain them from time to time. When I first went into his workshop, there was this african chap, who came to collect two Ethiopian military sabers which Nasir himself had repeened, and re-installed the leather covering the wooden hilt. Even the repeen job was traditional, he had ground down the brass hilt, heated the tang, and pounded it hard to secure the hilt, which was loose to start with. Another man showed him an omani jambiya, with beautiful silver nails hammered into the hilt, he complimented on the silverwork, when the man told him that this was his work himself, that he did some years ago. I tell you, this man can do anything. He told me that he had started learning this trade when he was 8, he used to live next to a swordsmith, and would go down to meet him daily, and help him in his work, until he became one, at a time when there were 9 swordsmiths in Riyadh, now, he's the only one left, and he hasnt prepared his heir

. He refused to start any conversation with him, before sitting down and having a cup of coffee, and before I left, I had to have dinner with him at his house as an obligation, when he had learnt that I had come to him from an other country.

His magnifying glass, with which he identifies giraffe, from rhino, from cattle horn, and between ivory and bone

A huge omani jambiya, for display only

S.Al-Anizi · 20th January 2007, 11:13 PM

Ghaddaras in the corner. The tulwar you see has the resharpened and fatigued blade, yet it is still, more expensive than most of the swords in the shop.

Spare hilts, of many types

The tulwar with the red velvet scabbard you see, is the most expensive sword in the shop, at $12000.

Newly made persian tridents, complete, with the cartouche too!

The four swords on the top all have persian wootz blades, with Syrian or Nejdi mounts, the fourh and bottom one has newly made syrian fittings. They all have persian wootz blades, and all run for $1800-$1200. Abu Bandar generally considers persian wootz to be inferior to Indian wootz, which he highly praises, even if the blade has been resharpened alot and fatigued. He also places Clauberg blades on top of Persian wootz in quality!!! Please ignore the gigantic swords that appear in the pic, they're nothing but a bunch of newly made syrian wallhangers.

S.Al-Anizi · 20th January 2007, 11:23 PM

This saif, or Gurda as its properly called (a straight bladed sword is called a gurda), is one of the most expensive ($9400) , and the most beautiful sword ive seen in my trip. It has an almost 500 years old, single edged English blade, marked on the spine "England 1510", and has a crown on the forte which I forgot to capture. The fittings are of pure gold, camel hide, and turquoise. On a first glance, it looked heavy and unweildy, but when I handled it, it was the best handling sword Ive held, very light, and very swift, but with good presence. I would really appreciate it if someone could ID that blade for me.

Tip is cross hatched

Closeup of hilt

Sorry if that didnt turn out so well, but it says "England 1510"

S.Al-Anizi · 20th January 2007, 11:40 PM

A mizraag that I found in the shop. I handled it, and it seemed well suited for its purpose, very light, and well balanced forwards, well suited for being thrown. Despite its crude appearance, its very useful.

Closeup of the spike

S.Al-Anizi · 21st January 2007, 12:15 AM

I had learned alot from this old man. First, that not all wootz is great as it sounds, some biyaadh (lit. 'whiteness', non-wootz blades) such as Wilhelm Clauberg blades, which he calls "Abu Askiri" (lit. Bearer of the Soldier), exceed in quality some zaraag (lit. blueness), wootz blades. He also generalises, that Indian wootz, is much better than persian wootz, even the famed assadollah blades, which he has many of. He actually offered me a persian wootz, slender kilic blade, with a very nice curve and yelman, very nice pattern, and old Syrian fittings, for $1200, when he wouldnt sell a clauberg blade for less than $1500. He also is under the impression that clauberg blades are 'Anglais', not German. I also learned from him, that he puts 90% of the price, on the blade itself, the fittings and their material being only a trifle, and the the blade and its quality is the most important thing. I also asked him about the provenance of the many arab karabellas that I saw in the souk, and in his shop, he told me that these were mainly produced in Najran, but also at San'aa. While handling that purple tulwar, it occured to me to ask him why he thinks they have smaller hilts, he replied by saying that the Indians have smaller hands than us. Terminology, he helped me with that too, swords with persian blades that have an extreme curve, are called 'hilali' (crescent shaped), swords with straight blades, are called 'gurda' (is that a hungarian word?), and swords, not falling into these categories, are called saif. Of course, to a person not knowledged in swords, every sword is a saif. Newly uncovered facts, not listed in Elgoods book

I also asked about the issue of polish, and that most blades coming out of arabia are buffed. He told me that he does not use a buffing wheel, rather, he uses special polishing stones, sandpaper, oil, and alot of elbow grease for polishing blades. He says, unfortunately, most people like to go the easy way, not willing to pay for a good polish job, and take their old, valuable blades to a blacksmith, who would buff them for a very cheap price. When I asked what he recommends for polishing wootz, he says that people used a a special kind of sand, mixed with spices, called 'narmahan', which, when rubbed against the blade, would bring out the pattern, without causing any oxidisation.

When it comes to Jambiyas, he told me that in Oman, two centres where the main ones in producing them, one was Muscat, the other, being the settlement at the Buraimi oasis, which included a large number of bladesmiths and metalworkers. The finest silver and goldwork being the 'Ibri (arabic for hebrew), nothing comes close.

Finally, I asked him about the many new, and not-so-old swords coming out of Saudi Arabia, usually having silver fittings and a nice blade, like the ones eftihis and I own, of which I say MANY at the souk. He told me that a large factory at Ta'if, produces those in huge quantities, mass produced, but hand assembled of course. He told me that the older ones, like 10 years ago or more, were of very good quality, having forged blades (spring steel) , heat treated, and bone, or sometimes even ivory hilts, depending on the blade (if it were new or old). Maria Theresa Thalers were used to make the silver fittings. The newer ones, however, are of display quality. Having machine milled, stock removal blades, plastic hilt slabs, and silver mixed with nickel. They have two uses, either for display, or for sword dances. They however, are still way better than the stuff coming out of Syria, still having steel blades.

Michael Blalock · 21st January 2007, 12:20 AM

تلك هي جميلة السيوف وجانبياه. شكرا

Thanks for the great photos. I've been studying Arabic, now I have to start planning a trip.

20th January 2007, 07:21 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great trip Hi S.Al-Anizi I envy your trip, and those beautyfull pictures taken at such marvellous places. Thanks a lot for showing. I have read you kind offer in the other ( Riyadh Museum ) thread, and ask you to mail me a full size picture taken at the old Bazaar, the one under the title "A bunch of Jambiyas. Good news, none of these were stripped of their original, forged blades, as with ones coming out of Oman." Would that be possible ? Thanks a lot - Shukran gazilan fernando fernandoviana@netcabo.pt Last edited by fernando; 20th January 2007 at 07:53 PM.

20th January 2007, 11:03 PM	#4
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Nasir Al-Sufayyan Sheikh Nasir Al-Sufayyan, Abu Bandar, an old man with 50 years of expertise at hand, in the field of swords, jambiyas, and spears, and in general, anything traditional. He is a very old man, a person who knows how things were done, and the names of things 'back then', a true historian and knowledgebase, in the field of arab history and culture. He works in silver, gold, welding, and everything related in the job of swordsmithing, except making the blade itself. His reason for that, is that it isnt worth the effort, costs, and time making a blade, when the market for newly made blades is low, and most people keep swords passed down from generations, and maintain them from time to time. When I first went into his workshop, there was this african chap, who came to collect two Ethiopian military sabers which Nasir himself had repeened, and re-installed the leather covering the wooden hilt. Even the repeen job was traditional, he had ground down the brass hilt, heated the tang, and pounded it hard to secure the hilt, which was loose to start with. Another man showed him an omani jambiya, with beautiful silver nails hammered into the hilt, he complimented on the silverwork, when the man told him that this was his work himself, that he did some years ago. I tell you, this man can do anything. He told me that he had started learning this trade when he was 8, he used to live next to a swordsmith, and would go down to meet him daily, and help him in his work, until he became one, at a time when there were 9 swordsmiths in Riyadh, now, he's the only one left, and he hasnt prepared his heir . He refused to start any conversation with him, before sitting down and having a cup of coffee, and before I left, I had to have dinner with him at his house as an obligation, when he had learnt that I had come to him from an other country. His magnifying glass, with which he identifies giraffe, from rhino, from cattle horn, and between ivory and bone A huge omani jambiya, for display only

20th January 2007, 11:13 PM	#5
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Ghaddaras in the corner. The tulwar you see has the resharpened and fatigued blade, yet it is still, more expensive than most of the swords in the shop. Spare hilts, of many types The tulwar with the red velvet scabbard you see, is the most expensive sword in the shop, at $12000. Newly made persian tridents, complete, with the cartouche too! The four swords on the top all have persian wootz blades, with Syrian or Nejdi mounts, the fourh and bottom one has newly made syrian fittings. They all have persian wootz blades, and all run for $1800-$1200. Abu Bandar generally considers persian wootz to be inferior to Indian wootz, which he highly praises, even if the blade has been resharpened alot and fatigued. He also places Clauberg blades on top of Persian wootz in quality!!! Please ignore the gigantic swords that appear in the pic, they're nothing but a bunch of newly made syrian wallhangers. Last edited by S.Al-Anizi; 20th January 2007 at 11:47 PM.

21st January 2007, 12:15 AM	#8
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	I had learned alot from this old man. First, that not all wootz is great as it sounds, some biyaadh (lit. 'whiteness', non-wootz blades) such as Wilhelm Clauberg blades, which he calls "Abu Askiri" (lit. Bearer of the Soldier), exceed in quality some zaraag (lit. blueness), wootz blades. He also generalises, that Indian wootz, is much better than persian wootz, even the famed assadollah blades, which he has many of. He actually offered me a persian wootz, slender kilic blade, with a very nice curve and yelman, very nice pattern, and old Syrian fittings, for $1200, when he wouldnt sell a clauberg blade for less than $1500. He also is under the impression that clauberg blades are 'Anglais', not German. I also learned from him, that he puts 90% of the price, on the blade itself, the fittings and their material being only a trifle, and the the blade and its quality is the most important thing. I also asked him about the provenance of the many arab karabellas that I saw in the souk, and in his shop, he told me that these were mainly produced in Najran, but also at San'aa. While handling that purple tulwar, it occured to me to ask him why he thinks they have smaller hilts, he replied by saying that the Indians have smaller hands than us. Terminology, he helped me with that too, swords with persian blades that have an extreme curve, are called 'hilali' (crescent shaped), swords with straight blades, are called 'gurda' (is that a hungarian word?), and swords, not falling into these categories, are called saif. Of course, to a person not knowledged in swords, every sword is a saif. Newly uncovered facts, not listed in Elgoods book I also asked about the issue of polish, and that most blades coming out of arabia are buffed. He told me that he does not use a buffing wheel, rather, he uses special polishing stones, sandpaper, oil, and alot of elbow grease for polishing blades. He says, unfortunately, most people like to go the easy way, not willing to pay for a good polish job, and take their old, valuable blades to a blacksmith, who would buff them for a very cheap price. When I asked what he recommends for polishing wootz, he says that people used a a special kind of sand, mixed with spices, called 'narmahan', which, when rubbed against the blade, would bring out the pattern, without causing any oxidisation. When it comes to Jambiyas, he told me that in Oman, two centres where the main ones in producing them, one was Muscat, the other, being the settlement at the Buraimi oasis, which included a large number of bladesmiths and metalworkers. The finest silver and goldwork being the 'Ibri (arabic for hebrew), nothing comes close. Finally, I asked him about the many new, and not-so-old swords coming out of Saudi Arabia, usually having silver fittings and a nice blade, like the ones eftihis and I own, of which I say MANY at the souk. He told me that a large factory at Ta'if, produces those in huge quantities, mass produced, but hand assembled of course. He told me that the older ones, like 10 years ago or more, were of very good quality, having forged blades (spring steel) , heat treated, and bone, or sometimes even ivory hilts, depending on the blade (if it were new or old). Maria Theresa Thalers were used to make the silver fittings. The newer ones, however, are of display quality. Having machine milled, stock removal blades, plastic hilt slabs, and silver mixed with nickel. They have two uses, either for display, or for sword dances. They however, are still way better than the stuff coming out of Syria, still having steel blades. Last edited by S.Al-Anizi; 21st January 2007 at 11:58 PM.

21st January 2007, 12:20 AM	#9
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	تلك هي جميلة السيوف وجانبياه. شكرا تلك هي جميلة السيوف وجانبياه. شكرا Thanks for the great photos. I've been studying Arabic, now I have to start planning a trip.

20th January 2007, 10:49 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Picture received Thank you ever so much, Sager. fernando

20th January 2007, 11:23 PM	#6
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	This saif, or Gurda as its properly called (a straight bladed sword is called a gurda), is one of the most expensive ($9400) , and the most beautiful sword ive seen in my trip. It has an almost 500 years old, single edged English blade, marked on the spine "England 1510", and has a crown on the forte which I forgot to capture. The fittings are of pure gold, camel hide, and turquoise. On a first glance, it looked heavy and unweildy, but when I handled it, it was the best handling sword Ive held, very light, and very swift, but with good presence. I would really appreciate it if someone could ID that blade for me. Tip is cross hatched Closeup of hilt Sorry if that didnt turn out so well, but it says "England 1510"

20th January 2007, 11:40 PM	#7
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	A mizraag that I found in the shop. I handled it, and it seemed well suited for its purpose, very light, and well balanced forwards, well suited for being thrown. Despite its crude appearance, its very useful. Closeup of the spike