Help Identifying a sword

Jim McDougall · 16th January 2007, 12:53 AM

Hi Alan,
Beautiful patination on this one!!

As noted, I believe this to be a British officers short sabre of 18th c. and a remarkably similar iron hilt to your example is shown in "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" (George C. Neumann, Stackpole, 1973, p.106, #134.S). This example of these 'four slot' hilts has the same pommel/capstan and gadrooned grip. These apparantly were favored by both British and American officers. It should be remembered that in this period, c.1775-1780, individuals all were essentially considered British.
The straight blade on yours is straight, and similar to those seen on similar 'short sabres' c.1760 (Neumann, op.cit. #133.5). In this period through the 1790's some straight bladed swords were termed sabres, and the term 'spadroon' was also applied. I think Paul can probably better elaborate on the application of these terms as his knowledge on military swords of this period is well known.

I find the striations at the front of the guard most interesting, as they may represent influences other than simply aesthetic decoration, and it would be interesting to seek others opinions. These may be stylized marks recalling the scallop shell guards of earlier English hangers, or possibly even similar striations seen on Spanish shellguard weapons of this period. From a more esoteric perspective, it should be noted that there are distinct possibilities of Masonic associations and symbolism, and naturally in these times, both Colonial and British officers, typically as gentry, often had such Masonic affiliation. Any ideas guys?

All best regards,
Jim

Alan62 · 16th January 2007, 02:07 AM

Thank You again Jim for your very detailed and for a lack of a better term
!Awsome! explaination and assesment of this sword.

Did you see the briquette style sword from a few posts back and is there any chance you might have info on the makers mark FC

Thank You again so much

Jim McDougall · 16th January 2007, 02:56 AM

Hi Alan,
You bet! Absolutely my pleasure, and I appreciate very much the opportunity to see these great weapons you keep finding!

The briquet is as you note, a most serviceable sidearm, which is probably why it was copied so consistantly by nearly every European army at the turn of the century c.1800. I have one that I have owned for over 40 years! one of my very first swords, and it has a cast cartouche in the hilt at the center of the crossguard with initials PS. I researched for many years, but never found any satisfactory possibility.
Always convinced that it was British, in later years I discovered that it may possibly be Spanish, and the wedge shaped heavily patinated blade seems consistant with Spanish colonial weapons I have seen of this period. It seems I moved on to other projects as this one seemed so inconclusive, especially with the incredibly broad diffusion of this form. There was however, a bizarre Spanish colonial hybrid with the 'Spanish motto' blade (see the thread with Matt Branch's sword) mounted with an altered briquet hilt, and loosely mounted three bar cavalry hilt of c.1820's. On the frontier in Mexico in the 19th c. and nearly unto to 20th c. there seem to be numerous extremely crudely done 'blacksmith' hybrids, and I mention this one only because of the briquet hilt component.
Unusual to see one with a scabbard! What is the blade length, details?
All best regards,
JIm

Alan62 · 16th January 2007, 04:06 AM

The blade is 23 inches long from the tip to the center of the ricasso nearest the hilt as the blade is slightly curved, it is 1 and 3/8 wide at the ricasso and the spine is 3/8s of an inch thick at the ricasso. I believe the scabbard to be original to the sword.As deep as I can see on the inside of it, shows signs of age .I looked at many reproduction scabbards and never found one made quite like this one.But you never know.
Like I said in the previous post about this one,I would probably pick it up first if someone strange came walking into my house or I were off to battle.It is a very stout little weapon

Thanks again for all the info

That is if I didn't pick up this stout little guy first....
....for your viewing pleasure, just cause I figure you can appreciate it

Its a Colt 44 M1860 Army with factory Richardson conversion

It belonged to my Greatgrandfather ,So I guess that makes it a Texan or Tex-nographic

weapon

Sorry I got a little carried away

Matt Branch · 18th January 2007, 05:44 PM

Hi Alan, that is a nice revolver, If you have the serial number you might be able to see who it was issued to at the Springfield Research Service.
There is a link to it on

HTML Code:

http://armscollectors.com

Thanks
Matt

Alan62 · 19th January 2007, 04:09 AM

Thanks Matt
There is the original Colt SN and the 2nd SN from when it had its Colt factory Richardson Conversion so it actually has 2 sets of matching SN's
It also has a US stamp from its time as a Government issue ,but most important to me is that it was my Greatgrandfather's when he was a Jailer at the Navarro County jail at shortly after the turn of the century in Corsicana Texas, but I will check out the link
Thanks

16th January 2007, 04:06 AM	#4
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	The blade is 23 inches long from the tip to the center of the ricasso nearest the hilt as the blade is slightly curved, it is 1 and 3/8 wide at the ricasso and the spine is 3/8s of an inch thick at the ricasso. I believe the scabbard to be original to the sword.As deep as I can see on the inside of it, shows signs of age .I looked at many reproduction scabbards and never found one made quite like this one.But you never know. Like I said in the previous post about this one,I would probably pick it up first if someone strange came walking into my house or I were off to battle.It is a very stout little weapon Thanks again for all the info That is if I didn't pick up this stout little guy first.... ....for your viewing pleasure, just cause I figure you can appreciate it Its a Colt 44 M1860 Army with factory Richardson conversion It belonged to my Greatgrandfather ,So I guess that makes it a Texan or Tex-nographic weapon Sorry I got a little carried away Last edited by Alan62; 16th January 2007 at 04:52 AM.

18th January 2007, 05:44 PM	#5
Matt Branch Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 36	Serial Number Hi Alan, that is a nice revolver, If you have the serial number you might be able to see who it was issued to at the Springfield Research Service. There is a link to it on HTML Code: http://armscollectors.com Thanks Matt

16th January 2007, 12:53 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,457	Hi Alan, Beautiful patination on this one!! As noted, I believe this to be a British officers short sabre of 18th c. and a remarkably similar iron hilt to your example is shown in "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution" (George C. Neumann, Stackpole, 1973, p.106, #134.S). This example of these 'four slot' hilts has the same pommel/capstan and gadrooned grip. These apparantly were favored by both British and American officers. It should be remembered that in this period, c.1775-1780, individuals all were essentially considered British. The straight blade on yours is straight, and similar to those seen on similar 'short sabres' c.1760 (Neumann, op.cit. #133.5). In this period through the 1790's some straight bladed swords were termed sabres, and the term 'spadroon' was also applied. I think Paul can probably better elaborate on the application of these terms as his knowledge on military swords of this period is well known. I find the striations at the front of the guard most interesting, as they may represent influences other than simply aesthetic decoration, and it would be interesting to seek others opinions. These may be stylized marks recalling the scallop shell guards of earlier English hangers, or possibly even similar striations seen on Spanish shellguard weapons of this period. From a more esoteric perspective, it should be noted that there are distinct possibilities of Masonic associations and symbolism, and naturally in these times, both Colonial and British officers, typically as gentry, often had such Masonic affiliation. Any ideas guys? All best regards, Jim

16th January 2007, 02:07 AM	#2
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	Thank You again Jim for your very detailed and for a lack of a better term !Awsome! explaination and assesment of this sword. Did you see the briquette style sword from a few posts back and is there any chance you might have info on the makers mark FC Thank You again so much

16th January 2007, 02:56 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,457	Hi Alan, You bet! Absolutely my pleasure, and I appreciate very much the opportunity to see these great weapons you keep finding! The briquet is as you note, a most serviceable sidearm, which is probably why it was copied so consistantly by nearly every European army at the turn of the century c.1800. I have one that I have owned for over 40 years! one of my very first swords, and it has a cast cartouche in the hilt at the center of the crossguard with initials PS. I researched for many years, but never found any satisfactory possibility. Always convinced that it was British, in later years I discovered that it may possibly be Spanish, and the wedge shaped heavily patinated blade seems consistant with Spanish colonial weapons I have seen of this period. It seems I moved on to other projects as this one seemed so inconclusive, especially with the incredibly broad diffusion of this form. There was however, a bizarre Spanish colonial hybrid with the 'Spanish motto' blade (see the thread with Matt Branch's sword) mounted with an altered briquet hilt, and loosely mounted three bar cavalry hilt of c.1820's. On the frontier in Mexico in the 19th c. and nearly unto to 20th c. there seem to be numerous extremely crudely done 'blacksmith' hybrids, and I mention this one only because of the briquet hilt component. Unusual to see one with a scabbard! What is the blade length, details? All best regards, JIm

19th January 2007, 04:09 AM	#6
Alan62 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 164	Thanks Matt There is the original Colt SN and the 2nd SN from when it had its Colt factory Richardson Conversion so it actually has 2 sets of matching SN's It also has a US stamp from its time as a Government issue ,but most important to me is that it was my Greatgrandfather's when he was a Jailer at the Navarro County jail at shortly after the turn of the century in Corsicana Texas, but I will check out the link Thanks