A cyclist pistol

fernando · 20th December 2006, 10:33 PM

Hi Philip
As i said, rimfire for sure. For a start, the protuberance in the hammer is not a punction pin, but a "I" trace, to smash the cartridge rim. Surely both pistols are to fit a short cartridge, due to the small space available when the hammer is cocked. No doubt they were made to fit a .22 short, or the like. I would not stand an academical confrontation on the priest version, as it was verbaly transmited by an antiquarian ( or two ? ). The cyclist version is more popular. But remember that, in the beginning, the purpose was only to scare the dogs ( more proper for priests ). Also you find in this type of calibers buletless cartridges ( alarm fire ) with only the blowing efect.
One gets lost in the countless versions of small calibers, let me tell you. I do know about the 5,5 center fire velodog, used by Galand. But what i actually have is a center fire six shooting hamerless revolver, clearly marked 6 m/m velodog. Indeed the velodog cartridge is longer than the vulgar .22 LR. Its a very plane piece but, if need, i can post pictures. It is numbered, but without maker's mark.
This is a french link on small pistols, with some examples similar to mine
http://site.voila.fr/collectionarme/miniature.htm

VANDOO · 20th December 2006, 11:58 PM

I WOULD CLASSIFY THE FIRST PISTOL AS A FLOBERT, PARLOR PISTOL NOT A VELODOG (SCARE DOG). THE VELODOGS WERE USUALLY REVOLVERS AND WERE VERY LOW VELOCITY DESIGNED TO SCARE AND STING RATHER THAN HARM. THE PARLOR PISTOLS OFTEN USED A PRIMER CAP AND THEN YOU INSERTED A BB DOWN THE BARREL. THEY WERE USED INDOORS ON TARGETS FOR GAMEING FOR BEER OR BETS, SO YOU DIDN'T WANT A LOT OF NOISE ,SMOKE OR A DANGEROUS PROJECTILE. INTERESTING LITTLE TOYS

THERE IS AS MUCH VARARITY IN FIREARMS AS EDGED WEAPONS AND SOME VERY STRANGE ONES OUT THERE. ONE OF MY FAVORITES IS A SUNDIAL WITH A CANNON, AT A CERTIAN TIME A MAGNIFING GLASS WILL FOCUS AND SET OFF THE CANNON. THERE ARE QUITE A VARIETY TO CATCH CHICKEN THIEVES ALSO

Philip · 21st December 2006, 01:24 AM

Vandoo,
You're spot on with this one. Some years ago a collector showed me a pair of pistols in a case, very high quality, most likely French, with breeches and hammers identical in design to Fernando's dog pistols. These had adjustable sights, "set" triggers, and the .22 barrels were rifled with as many as a dozen spiralling grooves. Some time later, I saw a German rifle of the same design in another collection, it was a mini version of the familiar single shot Tyrolean "Schutzengewehr" of the late 1800s. Obviously something designed to hit a target with considerable precision, albeit as short range. Too much technology to just keep a pest dog away from you.

Rick · 21st December 2006, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I WOULD CLASSIFY THE FIRST PISTOL AS A FLOBERT, PARLOR PISTOL NOT A VELODOG (SCARE DOG). THE VELODOGS WERE USUALLY REVOLVERS AND WERE VERY LOW VELOCITY DESIGNED TO SCARE AND STING RATHER THAN HARM. THE PARLOR PISTOLS OFTEN USED A PRIMER CAP AND THEN YOU INSERTED A BB DOWN THE BARREL. THEY WERE USED INDOORS ON TARGETS FOR GAMEING FOR BEER OR BETS, SO YOU DIDN'T WANT A LOT OF NOISE ,SMOKE OR A DANGEROUS PROJECTILE. INTERESTING LITTLE TOYS

THERE IS AS MUCH VARARITY IN FIREARMS AS EDGED WEAPONS AND SOME VERY STRANGE ONES OUT THERE. ONE OF MY FAVORITES IS A SUNDIAL WITH A CANNON, AT A CERTIAN TIME A MAGNIFING GLASS WILL FOCUS AND SET OFF THE CANNON. THERE ARE QUITE A VARIETY TO CATCH CHICKEN THIEVES ALSO

I had a great miniature brass cannon that was made for me by John Bowditch (probably a relative of yours Mark

) in preparatory school.

The piece was 2 inches long and bored for #6 birdshot. I used 6 flakes of smokeless shotgun powder as the charge and primed the touch hole with powder scraped from cap gun caps.

That little cannon would send a #6 shot through a quarter inch of pine board.

I love miniature guns!

VANDOO · 21st December 2006, 04:01 AM

WE DIDN'T HAVE BRASS CANNONS BUT WITH A 1 INCH THREADED PIPE AND A CAP WITH A HOLE DRILLED IN THE MIDDLE AND CHERRY BOMBS WE HAD ONE THAT WOULD JUST ABOUT SHOOT THRU ANYTHING.

THE PROCEDURE WAS TO PUT THE CHERRY BOMB FUZE THRU THE HOLE IN THE CAP AND SCREW IT ON THEN STICK IN A MARBLE OR STEEL BALL BEARING AND SMALL PIECE OF RAG TO KEEP IT FROM ROLLING OUT. THEN ATTACH THE CANNON DOWN TO A LARGE CHUNK OF WOOD AIM LIGHT AND STEP ASIDE AS OFTEN THE CANNON ALSO HAD A TRAJECTORY. CHERRY BOMBS AND M80'S ALSO MADE GOOD DEPTH CHARGES AS THEY WERE WATERPROOF. THE FACT THAT MY COUSINS AND I STILL HAVE TWO EYES AND ALL OUR FINGERS IS PROOF THERE ARE GAURDIAN ANGELS.

Philip · 21st December 2006, 06:52 AM

Vandoo,
We may be showing our age by fondly reminiscing about how we "reinvented the wheel" when we were kids (in your post you basically described a late medieval hand-cannon, if it weren't for the cherry bomb). Kids nowadays are too much into those silly electronic gadgets, and their parents are too darn protective anyway. We sure had fun back then, didn't we?

Fernando,
Did you do stuff like this when you were growing up in Portugal? My friends at the Irmandade do D.E.S. hall, older guys born in the Azores, said that there were men in the little villages who made their own rockets and bombs at home, and fired them off during the festas when the cortejo bearing the statues and church banners marched through the town. Azoreans are crazy anyway, on Terceira they have this "tourada a corda" which is street bullfighting, the bull is run through the village with strong men holding a rope so it won't go into the cantinas and houses while young guys impress their lady loves by playing it with jackets and open umbrellas.

Rick · 21st December 2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

WE DIDN'T HAVE BRASS CANNONS BUT WITH A 1 INCH THREADED PIPE AND A CAP WITH A HOLE DRILLED IN THE MIDDLE AND CHERRY BOMBS WE HAD ONE THAT WOULD JUST ABOUT SHOOT THRU ANYTHING.

THE PROCEDURE WAS TO PUT THE CHERRY BOMB FUZE THRU THE HOLE IN THE CAP AND SCREW IT ON THEN STICK IN A MARBLE OR STEEL BALL BEARING AND SMALL PIECE OF RAG TO KEEP IT FROM ROLLING OUT. THEN ATTACH THE CANNON DOWN TO A LARGE CHUNK OF WOOD AIM LIGHT AND STEP ASIDE AS OFTEN THE CANNON ALSO HAD A TRAJECTORY. CHERRY BOMBS AND M80'S ALSO MADE GOOD DEPTH CHARGES AS THEY WERE WATERPROOF. THE FACT THAT MY COUSINS AND I STILL HAVE TWO EYES AND ALL OUR FINGERS IS PROOF THERE ARE GAURDIAN ANGELS.

Then there was the Golf Ball Mortar .

Four foot cast iron pipe + M80 + Golf Ball . I wonder sometimes if any of those Tru Flites ever made low orbit ..

Also sea battles in our sailboats with bottle rockets; the windward guage proven effective.

Good times from my yout' .

21st December 2006, 01:24 AM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	parlor pistols Vandoo, You're spot on with this one. Some years ago a collector showed me a pair of pistols in a case, very high quality, most likely French, with breeches and hammers identical in design to Fernando's dog pistols. These had adjustable sights, "set" triggers, and the .22 barrels were rifled with as many as a dozen spiralling grooves. Some time later, I saw a German rifle of the same design in another collection, it was a mini version of the familiar single shot Tyrolean "Schutzengewehr" of the late 1800s. Obviously something designed to hit a target with considerable precision, albeit as short range. Too much technology to just keep a pest dog away from you.

20th December 2006, 10:33 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Philip As i said, rimfire for sure. For a start, the protuberance in the hammer is not a punction pin, but a "I" trace, to smash the cartridge rim. Surely both pistols are to fit a short cartridge, due to the small space available when the hammer is cocked. No doubt they were made to fit a .22 short, or the like. I would not stand an academical confrontation on the priest version, as it was verbaly transmited by an antiquarian ( or two ? ). The cyclist version is more popular. But remember that, in the beginning, the purpose was only to scare the dogs ( more proper for priests ). Also you find in this type of calibers buletless cartridges ( alarm fire ) with only the blowing efect. One gets lost in the countless versions of small calibers, let me tell you. I do know about the 5,5 center fire velodog, used by Galand. But what i actually have is a center fire six shooting hamerless revolver, clearly marked 6 m/m velodog. Indeed the velodog cartridge is longer than the vulgar .22 LR. Its a very plane piece but, if need, i can post pictures. It is numbered, but without maker's mark. This is a french link on small pistols, with some examples similar to mine http://site.voila.fr/collectionarme/miniature.htm

20th December 2006, 11:58 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I WOULD CLASSIFY THE FIRST PISTOL AS A FLOBERT, PARLOR PISTOL NOT A VELODOG (SCARE DOG). THE VELODOGS WERE USUALLY REVOLVERS AND WERE VERY LOW VELOCITY DESIGNED TO SCARE AND STING RATHER THAN HARM. THE PARLOR PISTOLS OFTEN USED A PRIMER CAP AND THEN YOU INSERTED A BB DOWN THE BARREL. THEY WERE USED INDOORS ON TARGETS FOR GAMEING FOR BEER OR BETS, SO YOU DIDN'T WANT A LOT OF NOISE ,SMOKE OR A DANGEROUS PROJECTILE. INTERESTING LITTLE TOYS THERE IS AS MUCH VARARITY IN FIREARMS AS EDGED WEAPONS AND SOME VERY STRANGE ONES OUT THERE. ONE OF MY FAVORITES IS A SUNDIAL WITH A CANNON, AT A CERTIAN TIME A MAGNIFING GLASS WILL FOCUS AND SET OFF THE CANNON. THERE ARE QUITE A VARIETY TO CATCH CHICKEN THIEVES ALSO

21st December 2006, 04:01 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WE DIDN'T HAVE BRASS CANNONS BUT WITH A 1 INCH THREADED PIPE AND A CAP WITH A HOLE DRILLED IN THE MIDDLE AND CHERRY BOMBS WE HAD ONE THAT WOULD JUST ABOUT SHOOT THRU ANYTHING. THE PROCEDURE WAS TO PUT THE CHERRY BOMB FUZE THRU THE HOLE IN THE CAP AND SCREW IT ON THEN STICK IN A MARBLE OR STEEL BALL BEARING AND SMALL PIECE OF RAG TO KEEP IT FROM ROLLING OUT. THEN ATTACH THE CANNON DOWN TO A LARGE CHUNK OF WOOD AIM LIGHT AND STEP ASIDE AS OFTEN THE CANNON ALSO HAD A TRAJECTORY. CHERRY BOMBS AND M80'S ALSO MADE GOOD DEPTH CHARGES AS THEY WERE WATERPROOF. THE FACT THAT MY COUSINS AND I STILL HAVE TWO EYES AND ALL OUR FINGERS IS PROOF THERE ARE GAURDIAN ANGELS.

21st December 2006, 06:52 AM	#6
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Vandoo, We may be showing our age by fondly reminiscing about how we "reinvented the wheel" when we were kids (in your post you basically described a late medieval hand-cannon, if it weren't for the cherry bomb). Kids nowadays are too much into those silly electronic gadgets, and their parents are too darn protective anyway. We sure had fun back then, didn't we? Fernando, Did you do stuff like this when you were growing up in Portugal? My friends at the Irmandade do D.E.S. hall, older guys born in the Azores, said that there were men in the little villages who made their own rockets and bombs at home, and fired them off during the festas when the cortejo bearing the statues and church banners marched through the town. Azoreans are crazy anyway, on Terceira they have this "tourada a corda" which is street bullfighting, the bull is run through the village with strong men holding a rope so it won't go into the cantinas and houses while young guys impress their lady loves by playing it with jackets and open umbrellas.