European Executioner Sword

Philip · 12th December 2006, 11:59 PM

Manolo
To answer your questions about the shape of these blades (BTW, the Dutch examples described by Henk seem to resemble the Germanic type very closely in their essentials).

I think the lenticular section was intended to minimize resistance as the blade cut through the neck. The pointed central ridge on a conventional lozenge-sectioned blade would create more resistance. Such a ridge would be desireable on a fighting sword, since it would thicken and thus reinforce the center of the blade. Blades do get whacked on the flat side during combat, so more strength in this area is necessary. Au contraire, a beheading sword is swung in one direction, and there isn't the element of stress from an opponent's weapon striking it laterally.

I've also seen a lenticular cross section applied to some single-edged blades from China and northern Burma. These are the falchions or straight dhas which widen towards the obtusely-clipped tips. On several of these, the spine thins out markedly from midpoint on, so that at the extremity, the cross section is like a lens, albeit with only one side really sharp. I think that this was deliberate feature put in to reduce resistance on the cut.

Practically all of the "Germanic" headsman's swords I have seen don't have a contour taper -- they remain wide all the way to the end. Some are slightly wasp waisted, narrowing slightly ahead of the forte and then widening a bit further out. That may be due to the effects of repeated sharpening.

***
In those European countries in which the sword was used for judicial decapitation, it was a generally reserved for the upper classes because the sword was associated with the nobility (indeed, the headsman's sword retains the cruciform guard of the medieval knight's sword, even though it would function just as well without any guard at all). Commoners were often executed by ax, or more often, by hanging or by even more ghastly methods such as breaking on the wheel (most of Western Europe) and impaling (parts of Eastern Europe, mainly Hungary, Poland, Ukraine).

It's interesting to note that the guillotine became the standard capital sentence in France after the Revolution not only because it was quick, efficient, and reduced the margin of error that even the most skilled swordsmen were subject to, BUT ALSO because it represented a "levelling" of society -- all citizens, if condemned to die, were entitled to this "more humane" (in the eyes of its proponents) method, REGARDLESS OF SOCIAL CLASS. No more would bluebloods enjoy the "privilege" of dying by the sword while commoners had their necks wrung or bones broken like mongrel dogs.

Emanuel · 13th December 2006, 02:55 AM

Thanks for the clarifications Philip!

This thread has put this type of sword in context for me. I am not planning on buying any such thing any time soon - staying away from European/Mediaeval until I have the money and knowledge/wisdom to get good pieces.

There're a few prison I can visit here in Toronto/Canada, but I doubt any implements of execution exist anymore...cap.pun. was abolished a good while ago.

The level of skill the headman needed to cut the neck cleanly in a horizontal swipe is amazing...I imagine it quite hard not to nick the shoulders or the jaw
Actually - and I apologize for sticking to this distasteful matter - I recall a picture/print of African Ngombe executions with their executioner blades...the "victim?" was seated and a roap mechanism pulled the head upward to expose the neck. Gruesome but makes the point.

Right, enough of that from me, many thanks.
Emanuel

Philip · 13th December 2006, 07:14 AM

I recall reading that in olden times, the executioner's trade was learned via an apprenticeship system. In many instances (particularly in France and even to this day in Saudi Arabia) the post was/is hereditary. Many generations of the Sanson family served the Bourbon kings, and on down through various restorations and republics, well into the 20th century.

Being accurate and clean with a headsman's sword involves similar discipline and concentration required for effective cutting with combat swords as well. A friend and colleague is a taiji instructor who teaches sword and regularly practices cutting with jian. He tells me that the perpendicular cuts on the rolled-up mats are more demanding than oblique cuts. (if you tried cuts from various angles with a sharp machete while trimming tree limbs in your garden, you'll see what he means).

The reason that swords and sabers can cut so effectively even though they are much lighter than axes is that their blades have much longer edges. It's the combination of percussive force AND the "slicing" motion imparted by the action of his arm that enables a swordsman to make a deep and devastating cut. A short chopping motion with a sword can be useful for that quick "nip" to disable an opponent's sword-arm or hit some vulnerable area, but is otherwise of limited effectiveness. Axes do well for chopping because of the weight of the head combined with the leverage of the handle. If you read Polish, a good book that explains saber design and the biomechanics of cutting is Wojciech Zablocki's CIECA PRAWDZIWA SZABLA (a true cut with a saber), Warsaw: Wydawnictwo Sport i Turystyka 1988.

Henk · 13th December 2006, 06:44 PM

Emanuel,

Handling a sword in a museum here in Holland is unthinkable, so the answer is no.

Philip made a good point that the dutch sword I saw is similar to the germanic sword. And that doesn't surprise me at all. probably it wil be similar to any european execution sword. it wouldn't be a surprise if the dutch swords where from german or french origin or the other way

Such a dutch or germanic execution sword is flat and doesn't tapper towards the end. A sharp pointed tip wasn't necesarry either. The only purpose for the sword was a blow with the edge to seperate the head from the body. So the only functional part of such a sword was a sharp edge. We all know the drawings of the european executions where the victim kneelded with his head on a chopping-block. No need for a tappering combat sword with a ridge and a sharp tip.

Philip · 13th December 2006, 10:04 PM

Henk,
A block is used only with the ax. In all cultures that I know of that used a sword or saber for decapitation, no block was necessary. As I have noted, a horizontal cut was used generally in Europe, the Near East, Siam, and sometimes in Vietnam, and the victim was kneeling with torso upright. When the vertical cut was used, the victim was made to kneel or stand in a bent-over position; a cord was attached below the ears and an assistant pulled to keep the neck stationary and extended (in pre-revolutionary China, the mandatory queue was used in lieu of the rope).

Henk · 14th December 2006, 08:23 PM

Philip,

You are right. A chopping blok for a sword would damage the edge. I looked to some pictures of the beheading of some famous dutch persons and found drawings of men kneeling with the torso upright but a little bend forward. I don't see a rope pulled by an assistant. But the artist could have left the assistant and the rope. Or our dutch nobles went with pride.

Philip · 14th December 2006, 11:47 PM

Henk,
Sorry, the verbiage in my post FAILED to keep the beasties apart (and to provide enough detail), and I see that you got confused. Let's try again.

HORIZONTAL CUT : primarily used in Europe, also in Siam, Arabia, and sometimes Vietnam. Victim is kneeling with torso (and head) upright, or nearly so. The position is easy for the victim to maintain with some degree of steadiness (though he/she is probably scared witless), and because of the arc of the cut, you can't have an assistant standing there if you don't want to deal with excessive employee turnover. The headsman swings the sword/saber horizontally, and the job is done. The Arab executioner often gives the victim a little poke in the side with the tip of the shamshir to get him to stiffen up straight, and then cuts immediately.

VERTICAL CUT: typically used in China, often in Vietnam and other oriental countries. Victim stands, bent over with torso/neck horizontal, or else kneels with head extending forward. It is more awkward for the victim (but nobody seemed to care about that!), and here is where the assistant and the looped cord around the ears comes into play. The idea is to keep neck extended and steady to receive a downward blow (in ax-using Euro. countries, the block served the same purpose).

Additional info:

The Japanese seemed to favor 45 degrees downward on a kneeling prisoner, based on some WW II photos that I saw of American and Australian POWs about to be executed by officers with katanas.

By the way, most of the info I have provided above comes from period engravings and photos, ranging from 16th cent. Germany to Qing illustrations to 19th cent. photos taken by western visitors to various Oriental countries.

12th December 2006, 11:59 PM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	contour/section of headsman's sword ; class considerations Manolo To answer your questions about the shape of these blades (BTW, the Dutch examples described by Henk seem to resemble the Germanic type very closely in their essentials). I think the lenticular section was intended to minimize resistance as the blade cut through the neck. The pointed central ridge on a conventional lozenge-sectioned blade would create more resistance. Such a ridge would be desireable on a fighting sword, since it would thicken and thus reinforce the center of the blade. Blades do get whacked on the flat side during combat, so more strength in this area is necessary. Au contraire, a beheading sword is swung in one direction, and there isn't the element of stress from an opponent's weapon striking it laterally. I've also seen a lenticular cross section applied to some single-edged blades from China and northern Burma. These are the falchions or straight dhas which widen towards the obtusely-clipped tips. On several of these, the spine thins out markedly from midpoint on, so that at the extremity, the cross section is like a lens, albeit with only one side really sharp. I think that this was deliberate feature put in to reduce resistance on the cut. Practically all of the "Germanic" headsman's swords I have seen don't have a contour taper -- they remain wide all the way to the end. Some are slightly wasp waisted, narrowing slightly ahead of the forte and then widening a bit further out. That may be due to the effects of repeated sharpening. *** In those European countries in which the sword was used for judicial decapitation, it was a generally reserved for the upper classes because the sword was associated with the nobility (indeed, the headsman's sword retains the cruciform guard of the medieval knight's sword, even though it would function just as well without any guard at all). Commoners were often executed by ax, or more often, by hanging or by even more ghastly methods such as breaking on the wheel (most of Western Europe) and impaling (parts of Eastern Europe, mainly Hungary, Poland, Ukraine). It's interesting to note that the guillotine became the standard capital sentence in France after the Revolution not only because it was quick, efficient, and reduced the margin of error that even the most skilled swordsmen were subject to, BUT ALSO because it represented a "levelling" of society -- all citizens, if condemned to die, were entitled to this "more humane" (in the eyes of its proponents) method, REGARDLESS OF SOCIAL CLASS. No more would bluebloods enjoy the "privilege" of dying by the sword while commoners had their necks wrung or bones broken like mongrel dogs.

13th December 2006, 07:14 AM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	practice makes perfect I recall reading that in olden times, the executioner's trade was learned via an apprenticeship system. In many instances (particularly in France and even to this day in Saudi Arabia) the post was/is hereditary. Many generations of the Sanson family served the Bourbon kings, and on down through various restorations and republics, well into the 20th century. Being accurate and clean with a headsman's sword involves similar discipline and concentration required for effective cutting with combat swords as well. A friend and colleague is a taiji instructor who teaches sword and regularly practices cutting with jian. He tells me that the perpendicular cuts on the rolled-up mats are more demanding than oblique cuts. (if you tried cuts from various angles with a sharp machete while trimming tree limbs in your garden, you'll see what he means). The reason that swords and sabers can cut so effectively even though they are much lighter than axes is that their blades have much longer edges. It's the combination of percussive force AND the "slicing" motion imparted by the action of his arm that enables a swordsman to make a deep and devastating cut. A short chopping motion with a sword can be useful for that quick "nip" to disable an opponent's sword-arm or hit some vulnerable area, but is otherwise of limited effectiveness. Axes do well for chopping because of the weight of the head combined with the leverage of the handle. If you read Polish, a good book that explains saber design and the biomechanics of cutting is Wojciech Zablocki's CIECA PRAWDZIWA SZABLA (a true cut with a saber), Warsaw: Wydawnictwo Sport i Turystyka 1988.

13th December 2006, 10:04 PM	#5
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	chopping block Henk, A block is used only with the ax. In all cultures that I know of that used a sword or saber for decapitation, no block was necessary. As I have noted, a horizontal cut was used generally in Europe, the Near East, Siam, and sometimes in Vietnam, and the victim was kneeling with torso upright. When the vertical cut was used, the victim was made to kneel or stand in a bent-over position; a cord was attached below the ears and an assistant pulled to keep the neck stationary and extended (in pre-revolutionary China, the mandatory queue was used in lieu of the rope).

14th December 2006, 11:47 PM	#7
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	separating sheep from goats Henk, Sorry, the verbiage in my post FAILED to keep the beasties apart (and to provide enough detail), and I see that you got confused. Let's try again. HORIZONTAL CUT : primarily used in Europe, also in Siam, Arabia, and sometimes Vietnam. Victim is kneeling with torso (and head) upright, or nearly so. The position is easy for the victim to maintain with some degree of steadiness (though he/she is probably scared witless), and because of the arc of the cut, you can't have an assistant standing there if you don't want to deal with excessive employee turnover. The headsman swings the sword/saber horizontally, and the job is done. The Arab executioner often gives the victim a little poke in the side with the tip of the shamshir to get him to stiffen up straight, and then cuts immediately. VERTICAL CUT: typically used in China, often in Vietnam and other oriental countries. Victim stands, bent over with torso/neck horizontal, or else kneels with head extending forward. It is more awkward for the victim (but nobody seemed to care about that!), and here is where the assistant and the looped cord around the ears comes into play. The idea is to keep neck extended and steady to receive a downward blow (in ax-using Euro. countries, the block served the same purpose). Additional info: The Japanese seemed to favor 45 degrees downward on a kneeling prisoner, based on some WW II photos that I saw of American and Australian POWs about to be executed by officers with katanas. By the way, most of the info I have provided above comes from period engravings and photos, ranging from 16th cent. Germany to Qing illustrations to 19th cent. photos taken by western visitors to various Oriental countries.

13th December 2006, 02:55 AM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Thanks for the clarifications Philip! This thread has put this type of sword in context for me. I am not planning on buying any such thing any time soon - staying away from European/Mediaeval until I have the money and knowledge/wisdom to get good pieces. There're a few prison I can visit here in Toronto/Canada, but I doubt any implements of execution exist anymore...cap.pun. was abolished a good while ago. The level of skill the headman needed to cut the neck cleanly in a horizontal swipe is amazing...I imagine it quite hard not to nick the shoulders or the jaw Actually - and I apologize for sticking to this distasteful matter - I recall a picture/print of African Ngombe executions with their executioner blades...the "victim?" was seated and a roap mechanism pulled the head upward to expose the neck. Gruesome but makes the point. Right, enough of that from me, many thanks. Emanuel

13th December 2006, 06:44 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Emanuel, Handling a sword in a museum here in Holland is unthinkable, so the answer is no. Philip made a good point that the dutch sword I saw is similar to the germanic sword. And that doesn't surprise me at all. probably it wil be similar to any european execution sword. it wouldn't be a surprise if the dutch swords where from german or french origin or the other way Such a dutch or germanic execution sword is flat and doesn't tapper towards the end. A sharp pointed tip wasn't necesarry either. The only purpose for the sword was a blow with the edge to seperate the head from the body. So the only functional part of such a sword was a sharp edge. We all know the drawings of the european executions where the victim kneelded with his head on a chopping-block. No need for a tappering combat sword with a ridge and a sharp tip.

14th December 2006, 08:23 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Philip, You are right. A chopping blok for a sword would damage the edge. I looked to some pictures of the beheading of some famous dutch persons and found drawings of men kneeling with the torso upright but a little bend forward. I don't see a rope pulled by an assistant. But the artist could have left the assistant and the rope. Or our dutch nobles went with pride.