Trisula of unknown origin

Dajak · 1st December 2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks for your response , Ben.

Some of the finest keris art ever produced was produced during the time of PBX. Hardly an indication that interest in the keris had lapsed.PBX passed away in 1939.

I don t think you can say this I see some from 14 cent that have pamor like no other

I would most humbly request that he provide an explanation of the factors that have led him to this belief, just as I have provided an explanation of the factors that prevent me from accepting that this trisula was made within The Land of Jawa.

as soon as i have made contact with him I let you know

Ben

David · 1st December 2006, 06:43 PM

Hi Ben. Thanks for your understanding. No apology necessary.

Perhaps you could convince your keris club friend to join our discussion. I am sure we would all find his research interesting.

A. G. Maisey · 1st December 2006, 09:53 PM

Thanks for that Ben, I will be most interested to see his justification, if he is willing to give it.---alan.

Dajak · 6th December 2006, 07:56 PM

Hi I might meet him the 17 off december so I ask him

Ben

Gustav · 26th August 2020, 08:53 PM

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...0-e00a18064a99

The New York Public Library, Digital Collections

Java: Antiquities. Origin unknown. Hindu and Buddhist subjects: Bronze trident. Owned by the old Bupati of Modjokerto. Origin unknown

Picture made by Lembaga Purbakala dan Peninggalan Nasional,
collected by Claire Holt,
created: 1950 - 1960 (Approximate)

kai · 26th August 2020, 11:34 PM

Hello Gustav,

Quote:

Owned by the old Bupati of Modjokerto. Origin unknown

Thanks a lot, great find! One more example of this type, finally.

As indicated, this may not really help in placing this style since pieces in the collection of a bupati might be gifts from other rulers.

Regards,
Kai

Gustav · 27th August 2020, 12:16 AM

In case this Trisula is not a later forgery, it could be quite a lot older then Michael's one (and has some substantial differences). It looks like an excavated object.

This might be a hint that the old Bupati mentioned is Raden Adipati Arya Kromodjoyo Adinegoro IV https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAA_Kromodjoyo_Adinegoro

If this would be an old and excavated object indeed, I doubt it would come from another regency, even more from outside of land of Java.

A. G. Maisey · 27th August 2020, 12:53 AM

That's interesting Gustav, thanks for making the pic available.

Certainly it is outside the possibility of classification according to the Central Javanese tangguh system. It just doesn't fit.

However, this one is bronze. The trident is associated with Siwa, and both these tridents have a triple ring feature between the base of the metuk and the base of the blade.

The first trisula from 2006 appears to be of iron and it has a metuk base that slightly resembles Puton classification, and its triple ring feature has a larger, heavier central ring.

The second trisula is of bronze and the ring feature has thinner rings, but still three rings.

I feel we might be looking at something from the Hindu-Buddhist period here.

Trident > Siwa.

Trident > three blades

Metuk + three rings > the Hindu Trinity(Trimurti) > Brahma > Wisnu > Siwa

Trident > Trimurti > Trimetuk

Only an idea, but bronze/Mojokerto/three/trisula/Trimurti/Siwa.

It fits together too neatly to be ignored

In Buddhist-Hindu culture as it was in Jawa & Bali, everything goes in threes.

Thanks again Gustav, for me, this is a clarification.

EDIT

You will note that on the original trisula the centre ring is heavier than the other two rings. This centre ring can, I believe, be understood as representing Siwa. In the Trimurti Brahma is the Creator, Wisnu is the Preserver, Siwa is the Destroyer.

The direction associated with Brahma is to the South.

The direction associated with Wisnu is to the North.

Siwa's position is at the Centre, but Siwa's favourite direction is North.

In the Early Classical Period the temple complex at Prambanan was constructed to face to the East, this was the usual Hindu temple orientation in Central Jawa during this period. Prambanan is a complex of three temples with the temple of Brahma to the South of the temple of Siwa, and the temple of Wisnu to the North of the temple of Siwa. Thus, read as directional orientation, facing the temple of Siwa you have Brahma to the left, Siwa at the centre, and Wisnu to the right. The same would apply with other representations of the Trimurti during the early classical period in Central Jawa.

26th August 2020, 08:53 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...0-e00a18064a99 The New York Public Library, Digital Collections Java: Antiquities. Origin unknown. Hindu and Buddhist subjects: Bronze trident. Owned by the old Bupati of Modjokerto. Origin unknown Picture made by Lembaga Purbakala dan Peninggalan Nasional, collected by Claire Holt, created: 1950 - 1960 (Approximate) Attached Images

27th August 2020, 12:53 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	That's interesting Gustav, thanks for making the pic available. Certainly it is outside the possibility of classification according to the Central Javanese tangguh system. It just doesn't fit. However, this one is bronze. The trident is associated with Siwa, and both these tridents have a triple ring feature between the base of the metuk and the base of the blade. The first trisula from 2006 appears to be of iron and it has a metuk base that slightly resembles Puton classification, and its triple ring feature has a larger, heavier central ring. The second trisula is of bronze and the ring feature has thinner rings, but still three rings. I feel we might be looking at something from the Hindu-Buddhist period here. Trident > Siwa. Trident > three blades Metuk + three rings > the Hindu Trinity(Trimurti) > Brahma > Wisnu > Siwa Trident > Trimurti > Trimetuk Only an idea, but bronze/Mojokerto/three/trisula/Trimurti/Siwa. It fits together too neatly to be ignored In Buddhist-Hindu culture as it was in Jawa & Bali, everything goes in threes. Thanks again Gustav, for me, this is a clarification. EDIT You will note that on the original trisula the centre ring is heavier than the other two rings. This centre ring can, I believe, be understood as representing Siwa. In the Trimurti Brahma is the Creator, Wisnu is the Preserver, Siwa is the Destroyer. The direction associated with Brahma is to the South. The direction associated with Wisnu is to the North. Siwa's position is at the Centre, but Siwa's favourite direction is North. In the Early Classical Period the temple complex at Prambanan was constructed to face to the East, this was the usual Hindu temple orientation in Central Jawa during this period. Prambanan is a complex of three temples with the temple of Brahma to the South of the temple of Siwa, and the temple of Wisnu to the North of the temple of Siwa. Thus, read as directional orientation, facing the temple of Siwa you have Brahma to the left, Siwa at the centre, and Wisnu to the right. The same would apply with other representations of the Trimurti during the early classical period in Central Jawa. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 27th August 2020 at 09:13 AM.

1st December 2006, 06:43 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	Hi Ben. Thanks for your understanding. No apology necessary. Perhaps you could convince your keris club friend to join our discussion. I am sure we would all find his research interesting.

1st December 2006, 09:53 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Thanks for that Ben, I will be most interested to see his justification, if he is willing to give it.---alan.

6th December 2006, 07:56 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi I might meet him the 17 off december so I ask him Ben

27th August 2020, 12:16 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	In case this Trisula is not a later forgery, it could be quite a lot older then Michael's one (and has some substantial differences). It looks like an excavated object. This might be a hint that the old Bupati mentioned is Raden Adipati Arya Kromodjoyo Adinegoro IV https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAA_Kromodjoyo_Adinegoro If this would be an old and excavated object indeed, I doubt it would come from another regency, even more from outside of land of Java.