Dayak parang ilang Handle

[VVV]

Hi Bill,

Iban Art, published 2005, is a very nice book.
The leeches making the sword familiar drawing blood is in the book a saying that they attribute to Saribas, an area where one of the Iban groups live.
I think that's a cool but more recent explanation from the time after headhunting was practised.
The Parang Ilang is a sword that the Iban got from the Kayan in the 19th C (according to Shelford and other sources).
The original meaning for the motif IMO must be found among the Kayan.

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi thanks for your reply

The dots in the mandau is not an rumor there are some mandau s and pakayuns who have very litle amount off dots in the weapons that it could be true that this was in use for a little time for each head an dot.
( we see some mandau s with 100 dots or more but these are more to make the sword more fancy )

Take a look at this mandau is has very nice in lay but look at the other side the way they put in the dots

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=mandau

The handle s the top is an milano handle second one land dayak third murut
and last kayan so I think the handle off this mandau is not melanau .

take a look at the crowits I never see 2 on an kayan mandau we find this combination the most at the Iban people with their mandau 's .

so this one might be one off the first type that the Iban did get from the kayan ( but not sure about this that what I like to find out any information about this is welcome )

Hi Michael what you say about the Heppel book I have to agree with you

The same for
the Zonneveld s book see the information about the parang nabur that is in it.
And the jimpul s that one in there is not an jimpul.

Ben

[VVV]

Hi Ben,

Maybe on the "spooky" Mandau the dots could be heads?
Or it's just an unusual Mandau all over?

On the Melanau influence it was just the motifs on the silver grip I was referring to, not the antler hilt of course.

Both the Murut and the Land Dayak could have had contact with the Melanau for influence on their silver work on your nice swords?
Let's agree at least that it's probably made along the coast of Sarawak?

Thanks for the close ups.
Now I see what you mean and agree that it looks both unusual and interesting.
I also think that your Mandau is a "transition sword".
Maybe early Iban made Mandau, as you suggest, before they became more usual in the end of 19th C.

Michael

[Dajak]

Hi Michael yes in the Sarawak part maybe the North that part that is close to the Muruts you see the murut one have it too and the scabbard also your nice rare pakayun has also nice silver on the scabbard

The spooky mandau they could be heads

Yes I think this one and the pics you show me from that nice mandau
could be transition swords

would be nice that maybe you post them here


Ben

[VVV]

OK,

Here is my Mandau, that we discussed off-forum, with an abundance of crowit.
I don't have it around at the moment so I will have a closer look at the blade later today.

Michael

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Bill,

Iban Art, published 2005, is a very nice book.
The leeches making the sword familiar drawing blood is in the book a saying that they attribute to Saribas, an area where one of the Iban groups live.
I think that's a cool but more recent explanation from the time after headhunting was practised.
The Parang Ilang is a sword that the Iban got from the Kayan in the 19th C (according to Shelford and other sources).
The original meaning for the motif IMO must be found among the Kayan.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Do you have an "original meaning for the motif found among the Kayan?" Or could it be the same?

It seems that a great number of these hilts have similar carvings, so it seems to be an important symbol.

Some symbols are rooted in antiquity and faithfully reproduced while others have lost their original meaning and are just copied because they have been there a long time.

I very much appreciate your knowledge and am going to post a few of my Dayak pieces in the hopes of learning more.

Curious Bill

[VVV]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Hi Michael,

Do you have an "original meaning for the motif found among the Kayan?" Or could it be the same?

It seems that a great number of these hilts have similar carvings, so it seems to be an important symbol.

Some symbols are rooted in antiquity and faithfully reproduced while others have lost their original meaning and are just copied because they have been there a long time.

I very much appreciate your knowledge and am going to post a few of my Dayak pieces in the hopes of learning more.

Curious Bill

Hi Bill,

Missed your post first because it came before Ben's.
I will try to find time tonight, or tomorrow night, to go through some of the old works and different ideas on what the "leech" motif represents.
I prefer to base it on quotes so everybody has the same sources to form their own opinion on this.
Look forward to see your Dayak pieces.
Maybe in a separate thread, so we can limit this thread to discuss Iban-Kayan transition Mandau?

Michael

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by VVV

Hi Bill,

Missed your post first because it came before Ben's.
I will try to find time tonight, or tomorrow night, to go through some of the old works and different ideas on what the "leech" motif represents.
I prefer to base it on quotes so everybody has the same sources to form their own opinion on this.
Look forward to see your Dayak pieces.
Maybe in a separate thread, so we can limit this thread to discuss Iban-Kayan transition Mandau?

Michael

Of course

[Dajak]

Hi Michael here some blade s yours has the style off the oldman jimpul

[Dajak]

and some more

[VVV]

Thanks Ben,

Yes it resembles the style of the old Jimpul more than the Ilang.
Not home yet for a couple of hours but will post blade comments as soon as I have it in front of me again.

Michael