Coral&turquoise dagger

erlikhan · 15th February 2005, 10:35 PM

Why like seed? Interesting question. i will ask about it to somebody.
Balkans right, Egypt, i dont know, but instead of northern Turkey, eastern would be correct, and most intensive among all. When i examine koftgari, i can see some erroded parts, which have got thinner remains or gone completely(example. pic.419 upper side) In fact not only koftgari, but everything is intact and very good preserved. Not a single pitting ,rust, nick on the blade.Never used. i bet i am the most humble owner of it since its birth

i showed it to experts whom i trust most, and there is no problem. But on what i depend most, i have not seen any special or ordinary villager sample without silver or gold koftgari till now. Good like this koftgari, or just a little, simple work, but all have a kind of koftgari on both sides . It is impossible for a coralled dagger with so richly decorated high grade silver scabbard, and good steel to be made without koftgari.
Kamil, do you mean you can't see the inscriptions on pic. 420 and need closer view?

tom hyle · 16th February 2005, 01:14 AM

Yep, even the flat bladed letter opener ones I've seen have koftgari at the blade base.

ariel · 16th February 2005, 01:39 AM

Ottoman weapons were, as a rule, much "richer" than Persian and the latter frowned upon such "effeminacy". Prophet Mohammed was also not very fond of richly decorated swords, especially with golden or silver handles.
Elgood ("The arms and armour of Arabia", p. 21) recalls Stocklein's rendition of an incident when in 1515, Shah Ismail sent Sultan Selim I of Turkey(Selim the Grim) a heavily jewelled sword as an insulting present, hinting at unwarlike and effeminate Ottoman customs. Elgood suggests a different interpretation of the insult: giving a richly decorated sword was Ismail's way to say that he regarded Selim as his vassal.
Wrong message!!! Ismail was defeated by Selim who proceeded to conquer the entire Anatolia, Kurdistan and Egypt. Richly decorated Ottoman weapons were nothing to laugh about especially when wielded by the Turks....
As to Egypt, Astvatsaturyan's book shows a gorgeous Mameluke Kilij wit a profusion of coral decorations and I distinctly remember Artzi (Oriental_arms) offering a similar one. Ottoman influence, no doubt.
Glad to know that I was mistaken and the koftgari is old and genuine. Congratulations! Marvelous dagger!

15th February 2005, 10:35 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Why like seed? Interesting question. i will ask about it to somebody. Balkans right, Egypt, i dont know, but instead of northern Turkey, eastern would be correct, and most intensive among all. When i examine koftgari, i can see some erroded parts, which have got thinner remains or gone completely(example. pic.419 upper side) In fact not only koftgari, but everything is intact and very good preserved. Not a single pitting ,rust, nick on the blade.Never used. i bet i am the most humble owner of it since its birth i showed it to experts whom i trust most, and there is no problem. But on what i depend most, i have not seen any special or ordinary villager sample without silver or gold koftgari till now. Good like this koftgari, or just a little, simple work, but all have a kind of koftgari on both sides . It is impossible for a coralled dagger with so richly decorated high grade silver scabbard, and good steel to be made without koftgari. Kamil, do you mean you can't see the inscriptions on pic. 420 and need closer view? Last edited by erlikhan; 16th February 2005 at 01:14 AM.

16th February 2005, 01:39 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Ottoman weapons were, as a rule, much "richer" than Persian and the latter frowned upon such "effeminacy". Prophet Mohammed was also not very fond of richly decorated swords, especially with golden or silver handles. Elgood ("The arms and armour of Arabia", p. 21) recalls Stocklein's rendition of an incident when in 1515, Shah Ismail sent Sultan Selim I of Turkey(Selim the Grim) a heavily jewelled sword as an insulting present, hinting at unwarlike and effeminate Ottoman customs. Elgood suggests a different interpretation of the insult: giving a richly decorated sword was Ismail's way to say that he regarded Selim as his vassal. Wrong message!!! Ismail was defeated by Selim who proceeded to conquer the entire Anatolia, Kurdistan and Egypt. Richly decorated Ottoman weapons were nothing to laugh about especially when wielded by the Turks.... As to Egypt, Astvatsaturyan's book shows a gorgeous Mameluke Kilij wit a profusion of coral decorations and I distinctly remember Artzi (Oriental_arms) offering a similar one. Ottoman influence, no doubt. Glad to know that I was mistaken and the koftgari is old and genuine. Congratulations! Marvelous dagger! Last edited by ariel; 16th February 2005 at 01:53 AM.

16th February 2005, 01:14 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Yep, even the flat bladed letter opener ones I've seen have koftgari at the blade base.