1730 Rapier or a Victorian 'Copy' .........any ideas?

Tim Simmons · 23rd November 2006, 09:48 PM

Hi David.

What is the pad in the cup made of? I am not sure about the engraving the style is quite modern looking to my eye. It is certainly a very heavy version of an epee like weapon. The picture are not that good. Could you take better pics?

katana · 23rd November 2006, 11:05 PM

Hi Tim, not in possession of the sword ...yet. It'll be on its way soon.
I believe the pad is leather....but not certain. I agree the lettering seems suspect...but I have seen, on the net, examples of engraved lettering from around that period (early 18c) and it could be authentic .....but then again a good forger would ensure it was similar....

I also agree about the weight......seems business like, have you any further thoughts on it?

Marc · 24th November 2006, 09:48 AM

With the usual disclaimer about how cautious one has to be doing evaluations through photographs...
I would say it's a "Victorian Copy", meaning it's a piece made for decoration, probably quite some time ago, but not that much as 1730. It's an attempt to a cup-hilt rapier, but it's only intended to look kind of well in a wall. Not even the blade seems original, also, but I would need better pics to really say that. Just some hints, as I don't like to just drop statements without some reasoning behind: the quillions are wrong, in shape and section, the construction of the hilt is wrong, the different elements don't harmonize together, and the blade, as I said, for what little I've seen is wrong, too. And, if the weight is correct, then it's too heavy, also. I apologize for not being more precise, but I'm a bit shorto fo time, right now.

I'm sorry.

spiral · 24th November 2006, 11:25 AM

Nearly 4 1/2 pounds in weight!

So No chance its a real fighting rapier, so then i would say it must be a wallhanger.

Spiral

Ian · 24th November 2006, 04:00 PM

The date inscription is definitely later than 1730. If applied at the time of the manufacture of the blade, this one is a fake.

Ian.

katana · 24th November 2006, 07:56 PM

I appreciate all your valued comments, especially Marc , for the extra information....my gut reaction was Victorian ...its the pommel with peening which made me take the risk. The weight given is approx. for shipping purposes so it is less than that....but by how much ..I can't say.....what is a reasonable weight ...if this was a genuine sword?

I suppose my only hope is that this 'sword' could be several 'cobbled' together ....all those years ago......and hopefully not to create a 'wallhanger'.......Ah hope springs eternal ...... will have to wait and see.

I also suspect that it has some monetary value as a 'Victorian curio', if anyone has any idea of it's worth (as a curio) please PM me thankyou.

23rd November 2006, 09:48 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Hi David. What is the pad in the cup made of? I am not sure about the engraving the style is quite modern looking to my eye. It is certainly a very heavy version of an epee like weapon. The picture are not that good. Could you take better pics?

23rd November 2006, 11:05 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim, not in possession of the sword ...yet. It'll be on its way soon. I believe the pad is leather....but not certain. I agree the lettering seems suspect...but I have seen, on the net, examples of engraved lettering from around that period (early 18c) and it could be authentic .....but then again a good forger would ensure it was similar.... I also agree about the weight......seems business like, have you any further thoughts on it?

24th November 2006, 09:48 AM	#3
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	With the usual disclaimer about how cautious one has to be doing evaluations through photographs... I would say it's a "Victorian Copy", meaning it's a piece made for decoration, probably quite some time ago, but not that much as 1730. It's an attempt to a cup-hilt rapier, but it's only intended to look kind of well in a wall. Not even the blade seems original, also, but I would need better pics to really say that. Just some hints, as I don't like to just drop statements without some reasoning behind: the quillions are wrong, in shape and section, the construction of the hilt is wrong, the different elements don't harmonize together, and the blade, as I said, for what little I've seen is wrong, too. And, if the weight is correct, then it's too heavy, also. I apologize for not being more precise, but I'm a bit shorto fo time, right now. I'm sorry.

24th November 2006, 11:25 AM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Nearly 4 1/2 pounds in weight! So No chance its a real fighting rapier, so then i would say it must be a wallhanger. Spiral

24th November 2006, 04:00 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	The date inscription is definitely later than 1730. If applied at the time of the manufacture of the blade, this one is a fake. Ian.

24th November 2006, 07:56 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I appreciate all your valued comments, especially Marc , for the extra information....my gut reaction was Victorian ...its the pommel with peening which made me take the risk. The weight given is approx. for shipping purposes so it is less than that....but by how much ..I can't say.....what is a reasonable weight ...if this was a genuine sword? I suppose my only hope is that this 'sword' could be several 'cobbled' together ....all those years ago......and hopefully not to create a 'wallhanger'.......Ah hope springs eternal ...... will have to wait and see. I also suspect that it has some monetary value as a 'Victorian curio', if anyone has any idea of it's worth (as a curio) please PM me thankyou.