Klewang/Bolo ID Assist?

tom hyle · 15th February 2005, 01:12 AM

Other than the sperm whale tip, the blade resembles a mainland SE Asian arit or mak. The 3 ferule bands on the handles are also reminiscent of that type.

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 03:06 AM

!!

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 03:09 AM

Hi Tom.....I'm fairly certain this definitely isn't in the rice chopping family, being one of the heaviest pieces of all of the Philippine pieces that I have, weighing in at 2 1/4 lbs., even heavier than most klewangs.
It has a large chip out of the front of the cutting edge of the blade ( a full inch long), and of all of the times I've seen the comment "...as if blocked by a rifle barrel", this is the first time that that thought actually occurred to me.
This is also the only piece I've seen with an intentionally hollow hilt....I like the "sperm whale" comment!**grin**.
It actually reminds me of Cecil the Sea Serpent of "Beany and Cecil" fame from long ago.

Ian · 15th February 2005, 04:49 AM

Here are a couple of Montagnard mak for comparison. I will be talking about these and other Montagnard edged weapons at Timonium.

There is a superficial resemblance to Congre's chopper, but not very close. The hilt on Conogre's knife is rather a poor fit to the tang -- one wonders if it is a later addition, and the bands are a "make do" fix to keep it in place. The animal hilt looks as though it could be from several places in Luzon (Batangas, Pampanga, even Ilocos).

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 05:02 AM

Actually, there is a LOT of basic similarity in the way the blade curves into the hilt, Ian, a true surprise.
From the amount of "grunge" in the open hilt, along the tang, I would say any changes were made a considerable time ago and the sloppy, although very tight and solid mounting does go with the general overall primitive style.
You are correct, however in the copper bands having been added at a later date, as evidenced by the difference in width of the slots for them to set into vs the bands themselves, obviously either a remount or a repair.
When I say "primitive", now that you have me thinking, the blade style almost seems too good for the hilt and scabbard, although the scabbard was definitely made for this blade.
The hilt, by the way, appears to be a very dark hardwood similar to "Macassar (sp?) ebony" with a very dark, blackened patina making it look like horn.

tom hyle · 15th February 2005, 01:41 PM

Nothing solid, but my understanding from the beginning has leaned toward this not being the origninal dress, and perhaps not even of the original nation. Are these new pics? I hadn't seen the flat tang. That strenthens its resemblance to the Moro panabas, some of which occasionally have such a tang, and are sometimes mounted as swords. The hollow of the horn is usually filled with wood on long-tang PI pieces, but here there'd be nothing to retain such, so hollow, ala sikkin. BTW I don't think arit/mak is a rice cutting tool; mine is a 3/4"+ iron bar at its base, and the blade itself is thick and solid; my impression is that they are for brush, rattan, etc.

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 03:34 PM

While the hilt is probably a replacement, the blade itself, to me, has a Philippine "feel" to it and, as you stated, the tang is flat, 1/4" thick by1" wide and 4" long.
The other Philippine bolo style sword that I have with a curved blade is also extremely atypical, with the general consensus a few years ago being that it was likey Mandaya, the blade completely dissimilar to this piece.

Ian · 15th February 2005, 05:04 PM

I agree with Tom about the mak. It is a potent chopper, often with a substantial blade. The thicknesses of the blade just in front of the hilts on my two are about 5/8 inch for the top one and about 3/8 inch for the lower one. Both blades are very sharp along the concave edge.

These were probably used to clear brush, chop down bamboo, small branches, etc. The "hook" would be well suited to removing small, low-hanging branches from trees (much like garden tool branch loppers we can obtain in the US).

Ian.

15th February 2005, 03:06 AM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	!! Last edited by Conogre; 15th February 2005 at 03:11 AM. Reason: accidental double post

15th February 2005, 04:49 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,449	A couple of mak for comparison Here are a couple of Montagnard mak for comparison. I will be talking about these and other Montagnard edged weapons at Timonium. There is a superficial resemblance to Congre's chopper, but not very close. The hilt on Conogre's knife is rather a poor fit to the tang -- one wonders if it is a later addition, and the bands are a "make do" fix to keep it in place. The animal hilt looks as though it could be from several places in Luzon (Batangas, Pampanga, even Ilocos). Attached Images

15th February 2005, 05:02 AM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Actually, there is a LOT of basic similarity in the way the blade curves into the hilt, Ian, a true surprise. From the amount of "grunge" in the open hilt, along the tang, I would say any changes were made a considerable time ago and the sloppy, although very tight and solid mounting does go with the general overall primitive style. You are correct, however in the copper bands having been added at a later date, as evidenced by the difference in width of the slots for them to set into vs the bands themselves, obviously either a remount or a repair. When I say "primitive", now that you have me thinking, the blade style almost seems too good for the hilt and scabbard, although the scabbard was definitely made for this blade. The hilt, by the way, appears to be a very dark hardwood similar to "Macassar (sp?) ebony" with a very dark, blackened patina making it look like horn. Last edited by Conogre; 15th February 2005 at 05:23 AM.

15th February 2005, 03:34 PM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	While the hilt is probably a replacement, the blade itself, to me, has a Philippine "feel" to it and, as you stated, the tang is flat, 1/4" thick by1" wide and 4" long. The other Philippine bolo style sword that I have with a curved blade is also extremely atypical, with the general consensus a few years ago being that it was likey Mandaya, the blade completely dissimilar to this piece. Attached Images

15th February 2005, 05:04 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,449	Mak is a powerful chopper I agree with Tom about the mak. It is a potent chopper, often with a substantial blade. The thicknesses of the blade just in front of the hilts on my two are about 5/8 inch for the top one and about 3/8 inch for the lower one. Both blades are very sharp along the concave edge. These were probably used to clear brush, chop down bamboo, small branches, etc. The "hook" would be well suited to removing small, low-hanging branches from trees (much like garden tool branch loppers we can obtain in the US). Ian.

15th February 2005, 01:12 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Other than the sperm whale tip, the blade resembles a mainland SE Asian arit or mak. The 3 ferule bands on the handles are also reminiscent of that type.

15th February 2005, 03:09 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Hi Tom.....I'm fairly certain this definitely isn't in the rice chopping family, being one of the heaviest pieces of all of the Philippine pieces that I have, weighing in at 2 1/4 lbs., even heavier than most klewangs. It has a large chip out of the front of the cutting edge of the blade ( a full inch long), and of all of the times I've seen the comment "...as if blocked by a rifle barrel", this is the first time that that thought actually occurred to me. This is also the only piece I've seen with an intentionally hollow hilt....I like the "sperm whale" comment!grin. It actually reminds me of Cecil the Sea Serpent of "Beany and Cecil" fame from long ago.

15th February 2005, 01:41 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Nothing solid, but my understanding from the beginning has leaned toward this not being the origninal dress, and perhaps not even of the original nation. Are these new pics? I hadn't seen the flat tang. That strenthens its resemblance to the Moro panabas, some of which occasionally have such a tang, and are sometimes mounted as swords. The hollow of the horn is usually filled with wood on long-tang PI pieces, but here there'd be nothing to retain such, so hollow, ala sikkin. BTW I don't think arit/mak is a rice cutting tool; mine is a 3/4"+ iron bar at its base, and the blade itself is thick and solid; my impression is that they are for brush, rattan, etc.