Borneo ?? Sumatra ??

VVV · 4th November 2006, 11:54 AM

I disagree a bit on some things that Ben brings up even if I agree with his other statements.
First I don't think that the parang from Nieuwenhuis is that close in style (first picture attached).
Then I don't agree that f.i. searching the Leiden archives clearly proves that this sword is from Borneo? I have attached two pictures, the first collected on Borneo and the second in Jambi.
There was a lot of migration in this region. If we can agree on that this isn't a Dayak sword, but Malay, then it could either have been brought to Borneo when somebody from Sumatra moved to Borneo?
I assume that when people moved around between the islands they brought with them their weapons?
Or it could have been produced in Borneo by a blademaker who had moved from Sumatra to Borneo?
Does that make it a Borneo sword???
Is it the style or where it was produced that decides the origin?
Is a balisong made by a Filipino in LA, in a traditional Filipino style, an American knife?
The braiding I also think was made on Borneo. Depending on the scenarios it could have been made later or when produced.

Michael

PS Ben, I wanted to see the part of the blade closest to the tip.

Dajak · 4th November 2006, 01:50 PM

Hi Michael I agree that it is not an Dayak sword but
with a lot off things that produced in Borneo like the hilt off The batak look like weapons was produced in Brunei the blade mostly from european swords

The same with the parang nabur made in malaysia but also on Borneo

Dajak · 4th November 2006, 02:12 PM

Sorry forgot to send it

VVV · 4th November 2006, 04:34 PM

Thanks Ben,

Let's save the Batak Piso Podang vs Dayak Pedang and the origin of the Parang Nabur for another thread.

Michael

Dajak · 4th November 2006, 07:39 PM

Ok Michael

VVV · 5th November 2006, 10:33 AM

Here is an unusual Mandau hilt variation that I think was influenced by the sword style we discussed?

Michael

Dajak · 5th November 2006, 11:58 AM

Hi Michael this is an parang with mixed up style (but an very nice old one) not an mandau it does not have the classic mandau form
it has only an krowit that make it not an mandau but always difficult with these weapons to put an classification on it
I have an straight parang nabur that is pictured in Zonnevelds Book wit an krowit

Here some pics about an latok sadap and an very old style Jimpul with an Latok type handle .

I have also an Dajak sword that has parang Latok type off handle that was taken in 1820 by an british officer you see that on your visit

The handle s like this was the early form off handle they use

4th November 2006, 11:54 AM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I disagree a bit on some things that Ben brings up even if I agree with his other statements. First I don't think that the parang from Nieuwenhuis is that close in style (first picture attached). Then I don't agree that f.i. searching the Leiden archives clearly proves that this sword is from Borneo? I have attached two pictures, the first collected on Borneo and the second in Jambi. There was a lot of migration in this region. If we can agree on that this isn't a Dayak sword, but Malay, then it could either have been brought to Borneo when somebody from Sumatra moved to Borneo? I assume that when people moved around between the islands they brought with them their weapons? Or it could have been produced in Borneo by a blademaker who had moved from Sumatra to Borneo? Does that make it a Borneo sword??? Is it the style or where it was produced that decides the origin? Is a balisong made by a Filipino in LA, in a traditional Filipino style, an American knife? The braiding I also think was made on Borneo. Depending on the scenarios it could have been made later or when produced. Michael PS Ben, I wanted to see the part of the blade closest to the tip. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 5th November 2006 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Wrong order of the Borneo/Jambi examples, sorry...

4th November 2006, 01:50 PM	#2
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael I agree that it is not an Dayak sword but with a lot off things that produced in Borneo like the hilt off The batak look like weapons was produced in Brunei the blade mostly from european swords The same with the parang nabur made in malaysia but also on Borneo Attached Images

4th November 2006, 02:12 PM	#3
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Sorry forgot to send it Attached Images

5th November 2006, 10:33 AM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here is an unusual Mandau hilt variation that I think was influenced by the sword style we discussed? Michael Attached Images

5th November 2006, 11:58 AM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael this is an parang with mixed up style (but an very nice old one) not an mandau it does not have the classic mandau form it has only an krowit that make it not an mandau but always difficult with these weapons to put an classification on it I have an straight parang nabur that is pictured in Zonnevelds Book wit an krowit Here some pics about an latok sadap and an very old style Jimpul with an Latok type handle . I have also an Dajak sword that has parang Latok type off handle that was taken in 1820 by an british officer you see that on your visit The handle s like this was the early form off handle they use Last edited by Dajak; 5th November 2006 at 12:08 PM.

4th November 2006, 04:34 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks Ben, Let's save the Batak Piso Podang vs Dayak Pedang and the origin of the Parang Nabur for another thread. Michael

4th November 2006, 07:39 PM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Ok Michael