Please help on an Islamic sword

fernando · 25th October 2006, 08:55 PM

Thank you again Jim.
Now i know i can consider this piece as of the janbiyya range. I have an Yemeni janbiyya with a traditional shape, and i wouldn't risk to associate both specimens without help. I will also surely buy Elgoods book, if it is available.
As an unitiated collector i can understand the seller's own conclusion on the scabbard end shape of this piece he sold me. Morphologicly speaking, it would quicker resemble a cobra head ( not tail ), than a garlic bulb ... even Asian . I will have to learn some more about the origins of this so particular atribution.
All the best for you and your family.
Hi Al-Anizi, are you there ? I am still strugling with the inscription decoding.
Could you tell me the right direction of the text? I think the pictures i posted here are in the wrong position. Should i turn the hilt upwards, or the blade ?
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards.
fernando

Hrthuma ibn Marwan · 26th October 2006, 02:02 AM

Its not a Jimbiya correct? It kind of has close shapes.
I dont know, but the shape of the dagger looks of Arabian origin.

The letters are Arabic, but it is more in calligraphy form which is complex to read. The only that I am sure of is "Allah".

Hope this helps

Tim Simmons · 26th October 2006, 05:32 PM

I do not know much about Arabian weapons. I just post this Kurdish? dagger as the blade form, curve, and decorated section are so very similar. I do know a little about Arabian silver/metalwork and I do not think the scabbard and hilt are Yemin and I am not at sure it is Arabian.

fernando · 26th October 2006, 08:27 PM

Thank you Hrthuma for the help.
I have learnt that some times these inscriptions are made with a strong decoration style, by blade smiths who are not fluent in Arabic, or even non Arab speacking. They do the letters by copying them from another piece, or from a written text. I am glad that you can read the word Allah in it , its already a start. In this case you could also tell me if you find the letters in my pictures in the correct position, or should i rotate them upwards or downwards? Thanks again.
Hi tim, thanks for your remarks.
Nice piece of yours ... indeed similar blade shape and decoration.
If i well understood up to now, the materials and detail work used to make this scabbard , are typical of India ( Hindu or Muslim, i wish i knew ), however with an overall shape to look like an ( Hejazi ) Arab dagger, or janbiyya, in the broad sense of the word ... not much to do with the more often referred janbiyyas from Yemen or Oman, with their peculiar shape .
Same goes for the blade ... if indeed it was forged in India, could have an Indian shape, and probably its decoration was made at same time and local, and also probably with a text destinated to an Arabian client.
It looks like i still have a long way to go, to find or be told something more specific about this weapon, passing by the inscription decoding.
The sure thing is that it costed me lots of fish and ships portions.
Kind regards
fernando

S.Al-Anizi · 26th October 2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Al-Anizi, are you there ? I am still strugling with the inscription decoding.
Could you tell me the right direction of the text? I think the pictures i posted here are in the wrong position. Should i turn the hilt upwards, or the blade ?
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards.
fernando

Sorry Fernando I took a long time to reply, I was busy with eid and all that. Anyway, you should photograph the dagger tip up with the hilt downwards. The inscription goes from right to left (naturally), and from top to bottom.

fernando · 26th October 2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Al-Anizi

Sorry Fernando I took a long time to reply, I was busy with eid and all that. Anyway, you should photograph the dagger tip up with the hilt downwards. The inscription goes from right to left (naturally), and from top to bottom.

Thank you very much indeed. That is vital for me.
All the best for you
fernando

Hrthuma ibn Marwan · 28th October 2006, 04:51 PM

Fernando, like S.Al-Anizi said, you should position the dagger with the tip of the blade facing upwards, and the hilt facing south.

But also as you said:

Quote:

I have learnt that some times these inscriptions are made with a strong decoration style, by blade smiths who are not fluent in Arabic, or even non Arab speacking. They do the letters by copying them from another piece, or from a written text.

That makes reading alot harder heh.

Good luck

25th October 2006, 08:55 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you again Jim. Now i know i can consider this piece as of the janbiyya range. I have an Yemeni janbiyya with a traditional shape, and i wouldn't risk to associate both specimens without help. I will also surely buy Elgoods book, if it is available. As an unitiated collector i can understand the seller's own conclusion on the scabbard end shape of this piece he sold me. Morphologicly speaking, it would quicker resemble a cobra head ( not tail ), than a garlic bulb ... even Asian . I will have to learn some more about the origins of this so particular atribution. All the best for you and your family. Hi Al-Anizi, are you there ? I am still strugling with the inscription decoding. Could you tell me the right direction of the text? I think the pictures i posted here are in the wrong position. Should i turn the hilt upwards, or the blade ? Thanks in advance. Kind regards. fernando

26th October 2006, 02:02 AM	#2
Hrthuma ibn Marwan Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in my study Posts: 18	Its not a Jimbiya correct? It kind of has close shapes. I dont know, but the shape of the dagger looks of Arabian origin. The letters are Arabic, but it is more in calligraphy form which is complex to read. The only that I am sure of is "Allah". Hope this helps

26th October 2006, 05:32 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I do not know much about Arabian weapons. I just post this Kurdish? dagger as the blade form, curve, and decorated section are so very similar. I do know a little about Arabian silver/metalwork and I do not think the scabbard and hilt are Yemin and I am not at sure it is Arabian.

26th October 2006, 08:27 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Hrthuma for the help. I have learnt that some times these inscriptions are made with a strong decoration style, by blade smiths who are not fluent in Arabic, or even non Arab speacking. They do the letters by copying them from another piece, or from a written text. I am glad that you can read the word Allah in it , its already a start. In this case you could also tell me if you find the letters in my pictures in the correct position, or should i rotate them upwards or downwards? Thanks again. Hi tim, thanks for your remarks. Nice piece of yours ... indeed similar blade shape and decoration. If i well understood up to now, the materials and detail work used to make this scabbard , are typical of India ( Hindu or Muslim, i wish i knew ), however with an overall shape to look like an ( Hejazi ) Arab dagger, or janbiyya, in the broad sense of the word ... not much to do with the more often referred janbiyyas from Yemen or Oman, with their peculiar shape . Same goes for the blade ... if indeed it was forged in India, could have an Indian shape, and probably its decoration was made at same time and local, and also probably with a text destinated to an Arabian client. It looks like i still have a long way to go, to find or be told something more specific about this weapon, passing by the inscription decoding. The sure thing is that it costed me lots of fish and ships portions. Kind regards fernando