Bringing out an oldy for comment

The Double D · 22nd October 2006, 07:00 PM

If those marks are from a vise jaw then the entire surface of them should be flat. Those marks appear to me to be incised. The only only type of vise jaw that could have made those marks are a vice jaw made from a file.

Lew · 22nd October 2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Double D

If those marks are from a vise jaw then the entire surface of them should be flat. Those marks appear to me to be incised. The only only type of vise jaw that could have made those marks are a vice jaw make for a file.

The area where you see the marks is flattened thats why I think it was done by a vise.

Lew

Rick · 22nd October 2006, 10:57 PM

Now that is strange ..

For what reason other than to set (reset/replace) the gonjo would you put a keris in the vise and under enough pressure to indent the surface so deeply?
Unless it was put in the vise really hot .

Lew · 22nd October 2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Now that is strange ..

For what reason other than to set (reset/replace) the gonjo would you put a keris in the vise and under enough pressure to indent the surface so deeply?
Unless it was put in the vise really hot .

We may never know

A mystery wrapped up in an enigma

Lew

Rick · 22nd October 2006, 11:14 PM

Aye .
Something to ponder for the ages .

I love the form of this keris .

The Double D · 23rd October 2006, 05:07 AM

Don't stay up after bed time and type...

Of course what I meant to type was vise jaw made from a file and not make for a file. I have corrected it.

...and English is my first language...okay American is my first language!

A. G. Maisey · 23rd October 2006, 07:27 AM

File or vise?

May I suggest that you look at this pattern under magnification, Lew.

There are criss-cross lines with a diamond between.

If the lines are impressed and the diamond higher than the lines, I think we are looking at a file.

If the diamond is impressed and the lines are higher than the diamond, I think we are looking at a vise imprint.

Have a look at the jaws on a metalworking vise and you'll see what I mean.

Regarding the different colour and texture of the edges.

A keris blade is not normally tempered. It is taken to critical, and then quenched to harden it. The tempering that reduces the hardness of a blade to minimise risk of fracture is not normally done with a keris blade.

However, there is another way to minimise risk of fracture, and that is to ensure that only the point and the edges go to critical, whilst the center of the blade stays below critical. This is not such a big trick to do, if you harden by passing the blade through a live flame, and quench as soon as the edges get to critical, which of course is going to happen a lot sooner than the center getting to critical, because the edges and point are thinner.The result is that only the edges have undergone the structural change that makes steel hard, and only those edges are going show the characteristic darkness, and long term erosion associated with hardened steel.

Result:- hard edges, softer center; a similar result to what would have been achieved if one had drawn.

22nd October 2006, 07:00 PM	#1
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	If those marks are from a vise jaw then the entire surface of them should be flat. Those marks appear to me to be incised. The only only type of vise jaw that could have made those marks are a vice jaw made from a file. Last edited by The Double D; 23rd October 2006 at 05:04 AM.

22nd October 2006, 10:57 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Now that is strange .. For what reason other than to set (reset/replace) the gonjo would you put a keris in the vise and under enough pressure to indent the surface so deeply? Unless it was put in the vise really hot .

22nd October 2006, 11:14 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Aye . Something to ponder for the ages . I love the form of this keris .

23rd October 2006, 05:07 AM	#6
The Double D Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the banks of Cut Bank Creek, Montana Posts: 189	Don't stay up after bed time and type... Of course what I meant to type was vise jaw made from a file and not make for a file. I have corrected it. ...and English is my first language...okay American is my first language!

23rd October 2006, 07:27 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	File or vise? May I suggest that you look at this pattern under magnification, Lew. There are criss-cross lines with a diamond between. If the lines are impressed and the diamond higher than the lines, I think we are looking at a file. If the diamond is impressed and the lines are higher than the diamond, I think we are looking at a vise imprint. Have a look at the jaws on a metalworking vise and you'll see what I mean. Regarding the different colour and texture of the edges. A keris blade is not normally tempered. It is taken to critical, and then quenched to harden it. The tempering that reduces the hardness of a blade to minimise risk of fracture is not normally done with a keris blade. However, there is another way to minimise risk of fracture, and that is to ensure that only the point and the edges go to critical, whilst the center of the blade stays below critical. This is not such a big trick to do, if you harden by passing the blade through a live flame, and quench as soon as the edges get to critical, which of course is going to happen a lot sooner than the center getting to critical, because the edges and point are thinner.The result is that only the edges have undergone the structural change that makes steel hard, and only those edges are going show the characteristic darkness, and long term erosion associated with hardened steel. Result:- hard edges, softer center; a similar result to what would have been achieved if one had drawn.