Moro shield

Nick Wardigo · 21st October 2006, 05:18 PM

I also wanted to mention that the Koreans used similar shields. I'm posting drawings from the recent translation of the Muye Dobo Tongji, the Korean military manual originally commissioned in 1790 by King Jungjo. Six of the fighting systems, including shield fighting, were based on an older Korean manual, the Muye Jebo, published shortly after 1598. This, in turn, was based upon a Ming (Chinese) military manual (I believe the same one that the drawing above comes from; the author's name is similar ["Ch'i Chi-kuang" in the Osprey book; "Chuk Kye-kwang" in the Muye Dobo Tongji]).

My point is, rattan shield-fighting was prevalent in China, Vietnam, and Korea as early as the 16th century (probably much earlier), still widely used in 1790 (at least enough to warrant prominent mention in a Korean military manual), and existed at least until the end of the nineteenth century. There was clearly a sharing of shield-fighting techniques across borders, and I would expect also a sharing of shield-making techniques, if not the shields themselves.

In short, unless someone can describe variations in weaving techniques (and in the absence of distinctive decorative motifs, like the Chinese tiger face), I am increasingly of the opinion that it would be very difficult (if not impossible) to distinguish the rattan shields from China, Vietnam, Korea, and possibly other Asian countries.

Philip · 22nd October 2006, 07:44 PM

Thanks, Nick, for the illustrations from the Muye Dobo Tongji. Interesting to see the saber shown next to the shield. This set of illustrations parallels the entry in the Chinese compendium of court regalia and military equipment regulations, HUANGCHAO LIQI TUSHI of 1759. In the hilt weapons chapter there are two entries with woodcuts, one of the shield used by the Tengpai (rattan shield) Division [pages 21a,b], and one of the saber (piandao) issued to same unit [pp 23a,b]. The shield has the same conical center profile as the one in the 1790 Korean book cited in the first sentence above, the only significant difference appears to be that the Chinese one has Mr. Tiger snarling at you from the front side.

Note also the saber. In the Korean manual, it is depicted with a strongly curved blade, not the norm for the usual Korean sabers we encounter on the antiques market or in martial arts videos today. In the HCLQTS, the "piandao" is also deeply curved, more so than the liuyedao or yanmaodao that are commonly encountered. Also note the name, "piandao" means "slicing saber" , implying that it is mainly meant for the drawcut.

We see parallels in India and the Near East, with both the strongly-curved sabers in use there (talwar, shamshir, kilij, etc) and the almost universal coupling of saber AND shield in their martial arts techniques.

21st October 2006, 05:18 PM	#1
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	I also wanted to mention that the Koreans used similar shields. I'm posting drawings from the recent translation of the Muye Dobo Tongji, the Korean military manual originally commissioned in 1790 by King Jungjo. Six of the fighting systems, including shield fighting, were based on an older Korean manual, the Muye Jebo, published shortly after 1598. This, in turn, was based upon a Ming (Chinese) military manual (I believe the same one that the drawing above comes from; the author's name is similar ["Ch'i Chi-kuang" in the Osprey book; "Chuk Kye-kwang" in the Muye Dobo Tongji]). My point is, rattan shield-fighting was prevalent in China, Vietnam, and Korea as early as the 16th century (probably much earlier), still widely used in 1790 (at least enough to warrant prominent mention in a Korean military manual), and existed at least until the end of the nineteenth century. There was clearly a sharing of shield-fighting techniques across borders, and I would expect also a sharing of shield-making techniques, if not the shields themselves. In short, unless someone can describe variations in weaving techniques (and in the absence of distinctive decorative motifs, like the Chinese tiger face), I am increasingly of the opinion that it would be very difficult (if not impossible) to distinguish the rattan shields from China, Vietnam, Korea, and possibly other Asian countries. Attached Images

22nd October 2006, 07:44 PM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	shield and saber fighting -- China and neighbors Thanks, Nick, for the illustrations from the Muye Dobo Tongji. Interesting to see the saber shown next to the shield. This set of illustrations parallels the entry in the Chinese compendium of court regalia and military equipment regulations, HUANGCHAO LIQI TUSHI of 1759. In the hilt weapons chapter there are two entries with woodcuts, one of the shield used by the Tengpai (rattan shield) Division [pages 21a,b], and one of the saber (piandao) issued to same unit [pp 23a,b]. The shield has the same conical center profile as the one in the 1790 Korean book cited in the first sentence above, the only significant difference appears to be that the Chinese one has Mr. Tiger snarling at you from the front side. Note also the saber. In the Korean manual, it is depicted with a strongly curved blade, not the norm for the usual Korean sabers we encounter on the antiques market or in martial arts videos today. In the HCLQTS, the "piandao" is also deeply curved, more so than the liuyedao or yanmaodao that are commonly encountered. Also note the name, "piandao" means "slicing saber" , implying that it is mainly meant for the drawcut. We see parallels in India and the Near East, with both the strongly-curved sabers in use there (talwar, shamshir, kilij, etc) and the almost universal coupling of saber AND shield in their martial arts techniques.