Moro shield

Bill M · 15th October 2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Bill,

Appears published by 2 publishers. Here a fuller discription.

Benitez Johannot, P. and J.P. Barbier. To be published in 1998. Shields: Africa, Asia, Island Southeast Asia and the Pacific in the Barbier-Mueller Museum [working title]. Munich: Prestel Verlag.

Benitez Johannot, P. and J.P. Barbier. 1998. Shields: Africa, Asia, Island Southeast Asia and the Pacific [working title]. Genève: Musée Barbier-Mueller.

Spiral

Sorry, can't find it anywhere. Any links?

Bill

spiral · 16th October 2006, 12:09 AM

Sure Bill,

Loads of places selling it, heres a few.

http://www.amazon.com/Shields-Southe.../dp/3791323415

or

http://www.ursusbooks.com/item91243.html

or

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Shields-I...?isrc=b-search

Spiral

Bill M · 16th October 2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Sure Bill,

Loads of places selling it, heres a few.

http://www.amazon.com/Shields-Southe.../dp/3791323415

or

http://www.ursusbooks.com/item91243.html

or

http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Shields-I...?isrc=b-search

Spiral

Thanks Jon,

Ordered one.

Warmest regards,
Bill

Cyclura99 · 16th October 2006, 08:27 AM

Rattan Shield of Bill Marsh ........> I have one comment Bill says its in perfect condition.

I beg to differ ... I looked at the pics and see that brass wire is holding one of the handles of the shield together.Seems to me the other side is bound with rattan(original).In my book this is NOT perfect condtion since it has a repair to the shield .. You see the wire on the front of the shield as well.

Please check out the other thread Authentic MORO SHIELD to see a Classic Moro shield .... What I would call perfect condition considering its age ... A very fine example of a MORO shield..............

Cy

Bill M · 16th October 2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclura99

Rattan Shield of Bill Marsh ........> I have one comment Bill says its in perfect condition.

I beg to differ ... I looked at the pics and see that brass wire is holding one of the handles of the shield together.Seems to me the other side is bound with rattan(original).In my book this is NOT perfect condtion since it has a repair to the shield .. You see the wire on the front of the shield as well.

Please check out the other thread Authentic MORO SHIELD to see a Classic Moro shield .... What I would call perfect condition considering its age ... A very fine example of a MORO shield..............

Cy

Chris,

I meant the shield itself is in perfect condition. No cuts, tears, damaged or loose rattan. Sure one of the handles has been re-wired on, but the rattan is untouched.

But thank you for your kind observation.

Please keep your pictures of authentic pieces coming. I, for one, enjoy looking at them!

Nick Wardigo · 16th October 2006, 05:41 PM

I'm of the opinion that this shield is likely Chinese. I've seen maybe a dozen Chinese shields over the years, and this one fits the general size, shape, composition, and weaving. The handles are a little odd, but it isn't anything that sends up a red flag to me.

Having said that, Ben is correct, the Barbier-Mueller book does identify a similar shield as Vietnamese. Also, a line drawing of a very similar shield shows up in Huard and Durand's book, VIET NAM CIVILIZATION AND CULTURE (the English translation of, CONNAISSANCE DU VIETNAM). That the Vietnamese and Chinese use similar (or identical) rattan shields is hardly surprising. The materials are readily available in that part of the world, and the resulting product is light and able to withstand a sword blow. Shields are not my area of expertise, but I would guess that, without specific provenance, it is impossible to tell the difference between Chinese and Vietnamese rattan shields (unless the shield is painted with the telltale tiger face, which is a Chinese affectation). All things being equal, I would say Chinese is the best guess because, statistically, I would expect more of these shields to be made in China.

Having said all that, I am not discounting the possibility of a Moro origin. Again, rattan is rattan, and any culture capable of making a rattan basket is certainly capable of making a rattan shield. The problem is, I have never seen a rattan shield attributed to any of the Moro peoples. The only Moro shields I've seen have been the round, wooden ones of various sizes.

Bill, do you have any photographic evidence that the Moros used rattan shields? Or, possibly, cite a written example? I have a passing curiousity about these things, and I'd appreciate any information you can provide.

Thanks,
Nick

Bill M · 17th October 2006, 09:23 AM

I have a shield book and a book on basketry of the Luzon on the way. I am hoping that these will provide more information. Will let you know when they arrive.

Thanks Ben for your help!

I am researching two areas, the basketry pattern as possibly being Luzon and the shape of the handles. These look like handles on many other Moro shields.

There is not a lot else to go on. I suspect it is a Moro "economy" shield. Unusual in that it seems quite old. Rare in that not a lot of rattan shields have survived intact.

Still curious about the hole in the center. Could this have once held some kind of boss? Or wooden plug?

Any other ideas? Certainly could be another culture!

16th October 2006, 12:09 AM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Sure Bill, Loads of places selling it, heres a few. http://www.amazon.com/Shields-Southe.../dp/3791323415 or http://www.ursusbooks.com/item91243.html or http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Shields-I...?isrc=b-search Spiral

16th October 2006, 08:27 AM	#4
Cyclura99 Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 15	Rattan Shield of Bill Marsh ........> I have one comment Bill says its in perfect condition. I beg to differ ... I looked at the pics and see that brass wire is holding one of the handles of the shield together.Seems to me the other side is bound with rattan(original).In my book this is NOT perfect condtion since it has a repair to the shield .. You see the wire on the front of the shield as well. Please check out the other thread Authentic MORO SHIELD to see a Classic Moro shield .... What I would call perfect condition considering its age ... A very fine example of a MORO shield.............. Cy

16th October 2006, 05:41 PM	#6
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	I'm of the opinion that this shield is likely Chinese. I've seen maybe a dozen Chinese shields over the years, and this one fits the general size, shape, composition, and weaving. The handles are a little odd, but it isn't anything that sends up a red flag to me. Having said that, Ben is correct, the Barbier-Mueller book does identify a similar shield as Vietnamese. Also, a line drawing of a very similar shield shows up in Huard and Durand's book, VIET NAM CIVILIZATION AND CULTURE (the English translation of, CONNAISSANCE DU VIETNAM). That the Vietnamese and Chinese use similar (or identical) rattan shields is hardly surprising. The materials are readily available in that part of the world, and the resulting product is light and able to withstand a sword blow. Shields are not my area of expertise, but I would guess that, without specific provenance, it is impossible to tell the difference between Chinese and Vietnamese rattan shields (unless the shield is painted with the telltale tiger face, which is a Chinese affectation). All things being equal, I would say Chinese is the best guess because, statistically, I would expect more of these shields to be made in China. Having said all that, I am not discounting the possibility of a Moro origin. Again, rattan is rattan, and any culture capable of making a rattan basket is certainly capable of making a rattan shield. The problem is, I have never seen a rattan shield attributed to any of the Moro peoples. The only Moro shields I've seen have been the round, wooden ones of various sizes. Bill, do you have any photographic evidence that the Moros used rattan shields? Or, possibly, cite a written example? I have a passing curiousity about these things, and I'd appreciate any information you can provide. Thanks, Nick

17th October 2006, 09:23 AM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I have a shield book and a book on basketry of the Luzon on the way. I am hoping that these will provide more information. Will let you know when they arrive. Thanks Ben for your help! I am researching two areas, the basketry pattern as possibly being Luzon and the shape of the handles. These look like handles on many other Moro shields. There is not a lot else to go on. I suspect it is a Moro "economy" shield. Unusual in that it seems quite old. Rare in that not a lot of rattan shields have survived intact. Still curious about the hole in the center. Could this have once held some kind of boss? Or wooden plug? Any other ideas? Certainly could be another culture!