ETHIOPIAN, ANYONE?

roanoa · 15th October 2006, 06:23 PM

Hi guys. Trying to keep this thread going. There's so much stuff. So, here are three Ethiopian daggers with "fancy" scabbards. They are actually no scabbards at all... Two daggers have their original leather scabbards; one (Hi, Derek) does not. All three daggers have been inserted into the metal sheaths that originally decorated the terminal portion of SWORD scabbards. I have found another dagger like these three. So I have actually documented this practise in four cases. It is unclear, at least to me, how sword furniture was used like this. Two theories: 1) the daggers were produced in this configurations by scabbard makers who had a surplus of these sheaths; 2) they were made using broken swords picked up as throphies on a battlefield. Any other guesses?

Tim Simmons · 15th October 2006, 08:05 PM

Abyssinia a fascinating area. The array of poorly documented weapons. From your previous thread we saw those lovely examples from the south with a sickle knife influence, then in this thread the European influence. Where does the eastern influence begin from Somalia and the Arabian peninsular? possibly with these knives. Is the shotel solely Abyssinian? I know we have seen an ebay purchase post here by Ariel, one of those curved sabers having the tangent at the scabbard tip with an eared grip. Are there Kaskara with Abyssinian marks? not including the straight European blades. lots of questions.

roanoa · 15th October 2006, 09:36 PM

Hi, Tim. Yes, the diversity of weapons found in Abyssinia is amazing. Local blades, European blades, Ind-persian and Arabian blades. LOTS of Kaskara in Abyssinia, either used as such (Ethiopia shares a very long border with Sudan and there is lots of ethnical overlapping) or re-hilted to traditional Ethiopian SEIFs. The opposite is also true. I posted a Kaskara that I believe to be Eritrean and asked for help with the translation, which is in Arabic, but no luck so far (under KASKARA NEEDS TRANLATOR). I will keep on posting "stuff" for your enjoyment. Ron

Bill M · 16th October 2006, 08:10 AM

Ron,

Here is my shotel. Have a neat scabbard also, not in pictures.

I have read that the long curved blade was for getting around an opponent's shield. Guess that would have been a surprise!

I think that the handle is rhino horn -- no wait, it is cow horn....er..Rhino? cow! gotta be rhino. have a couple of Uzo drinks and it could have come from an authentic 1952 Studebaker Commander

Comments, please, i would like to know more about these interesting swords and the people who made and used them.

roanoa · 16th October 2006, 07:42 PM

Hi Bill. EXCELLENT example of shotel. Nice curve. Hilt: COW. Everybody says that the shotel is curved so that one could go around the enemy's shield. Personally, I believe it's one of those myths that have been perpetuated and become gospel. First: not all shotels are curved enough to do that job. Second: I have several shotels and I have tried to do that only to find out that you really lack the power to strike. So, I believe it's a nice theory and I can see how people would go for it. I, for one, do not.

Bill M · 16th October 2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roanoa

Hi Bill. EXCELLENT example of shotel. Nice curve. Hilt: COW. Everybody says that the shotel is curved so that one could go around the enemy's shield. Personally, I believe it's one of those myths that have been perpetuated and become gospel. First: not all shotels are curved enough to do that job. Second: I have several shotels and I have tried to do that only to find out that you really lack the power to strike. So, I believe it's a nice theory and I can see how people would go for it. I, for one, do not.

Ron,

Thanks. I have always wondered about that "going around the shield" concept. The shotel seems to be an unwieldy sword with very strange balance. Niether a thrusting nor a slashing weapon. Any ideas about how it was used?

COW is fine with me. It is solid and has a nice color and seems well put together.

roanoa · 17th October 2006, 12:18 AM

Hi. The shotel is truly ans Abyssinian sword. It is designed to strike with the tip and it has enough force to "stab" through a shield. I believe it is native of the Tigray region. There even was a village in Eritrea called "shotel'". I found the photo of a painting about the battle of Adwa (1896). It is a huge painting that is VERY accurate in details of weapons used by the Abyssinians and the Italians. I cropped this portion. It shows how the shotel was used!!

15th October 2006, 06:23 PM	#1
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi guys. Trying to keep this thread going. There's so much stuff. So, here are three Ethiopian daggers with "fancy" scabbards. They are actually no scabbards at all... Two daggers have their original leather scabbards; one (Hi, Derek) does not. All three daggers have been inserted into the metal sheaths that originally decorated the terminal portion of SWORD scabbards. I have found another dagger like these three. So I have actually documented this practise in four cases. It is unclear, at least to me, how sword furniture was used like this. Two theories: 1) the daggers were produced in this configurations by scabbard makers who had a surplus of these sheaths; 2) they were made using broken swords picked up as throphies on a battlefield. Any other guesses? Attached Images

16th October 2006, 08:10 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Ron, Here is my shotel. Have a neat scabbard also, not in pictures. I have read that the long curved blade was for getting around an opponent's shield. Guess that would have been a surprise! I think that the handle is rhino horn -- no wait, it is cow horn....er..Rhino? cow! gotta be rhino. have a couple of Uzo drinks and it could have come from an *authentic* 1952 Studebaker Commander Comments, please, i would like to know more about these interesting swords and the people who made and used them. Attached Images

17th October 2006, 12:18 AM	#7
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi. The shotel is truly ans Abyssinian sword. It is designed to strike with the tip and it has enough force to "stab" through a shield. I believe it is native of the Tigray region. There even was a village in Eritrea called "shotel'". I found the photo of a painting about the battle of Adwa (1896). It is a huge painting that is VERY accurate in details of weapons used by the Abyssinians and the Italians. I cropped this portion. It shows how the shotel was used!! Attached Images

15th October 2006, 08:05 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	Abyssinia a fascinating area. The array of poorly documented weapons. From your previous thread we saw those lovely examples from the south with a sickle knife influence, then in this thread the European influence. Where does the eastern influence begin from Somalia and the Arabian peninsular? possibly with these knives. Is the shotel solely Abyssinian? I know we have seen an ebay purchase post here by Ariel, one of those curved sabers having the tangent at the scabbard tip with an eared grip. Are there Kaskara with Abyssinian marks? not including the straight European blades. lots of questions.

15th October 2006, 09:36 PM	#3
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi, Tim. Yes, the diversity of weapons found in Abyssinia is amazing. Local blades, European blades, Ind-persian and Arabian blades. LOTS of Kaskara in Abyssinia, either used as such (Ethiopia shares a very long border with Sudan and there is lots of ethnical overlapping) or re-hilted to traditional Ethiopian SEIFs. The opposite is also true. I posted a Kaskara that I believe to be Eritrean and asked for help with the translation, which is in Arabic, but no luck so far (under KASKARA NEEDS TRANLATOR). I will keep on posting "stuff" for your enjoyment. Ron

16th October 2006, 07:42 PM	#5
roanoa Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 241	Hi Bill. EXCELLENT example of shotel. Nice curve. Hilt: COW. Everybody says that the shotel is curved so that one could go around the enemy's shield. Personally, I believe it's one of those myths that have been perpetuated and become gospel. First: not all shotels are curved enough to do that job. Second: I have several shotels and I have tried to do that only to find out that you really lack the power to strike. So, I believe it's a nice theory and I can see how people would go for it. I, for one, do not.