My Great Grandfather's Sword

S.Al-Anizi · 6th October 2006, 06:59 PM

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Battara · 6th October 2006, 09:19 PM

Very nice piece. European blade and the mounts and grip look like gold over copper.

spiral · 6th October 2006, 09:46 PM

Thankyou for sharing such a piece.

Spiral

Lee · 6th October 2006, 10:27 PM

I think we often under estimate the efficiency of the trade networks from pre-automotive times. I have had an interest in the takoubas of the Saharan Tuareg, and 19th century and earlier European blades are occasionally seen in these swords, even those belonging to persons living well off into the desert. We obviously can never know; your family's blade could have been lost by a member of the French foreign legion and made its way to Arabia by the timeless caravans or perhaps it made its way to the area as military surplus by more conventional channels.

I imagine such European blades would have been valued at the time as well tempered, reliable steel. Has the blade been sharpened for a good cutting edge? So often, military sabers tend to be poorly sharpened. I have heard it told that the British were amazed how well their own sword blades could cut when they fell into local hands in India and were properly sharpened.

In observing the takouba, it is difficult to get a good view of the evolution of the form from the examples you find in-situ; one must often turn to examples in European museums of known collection date. Paradoxically, the 'oldest' takoubas I would encounter were often, at the same time, the very 'newest,' having been remounted within the last decade or so. It is pretty difficult to locate an example of old mountings on those swords still being carried. I suspect this is common when the sword remains culturally alive, as opposed to being only a relic. How exciting it must be to hold a sword you know to have been carried by an ancestor.

Turning to practical matters, you may wish to explore using an epoxy glue for fixing the grip to the guard; this avoids risking heat and can be reversed. I usually limit my treatment of blades to fine steel wool moistened with oil. Better to stop short than to over clean, in my opinion.

ariel · 6th October 2006, 10:53 PM

I agree completely. Fix it witn minimal damage or alterations. After all, the main value of this sword is sentimental: would you want to take an old picture of your ancestor and Photoshop his wrinkles out?
As to the blade: I have an Ethiopian Gourade with a Russian Zlatoust blade marked on the spine "August 1853". Go figure how it ended there..... Must have been quite a story.
Gorgeous sword and a great family relic! Take very good care of it and be proud every time your grandma allows you to play with it for a while

S.Al-Anizi · 7th October 2006, 12:22 PM

Thank you for the compliments battara, spiral, lee, and ariel.

Lee, European blades were, as you said, valued at that time, primarily because of their good steel and excellent temper. Even though they were primitive, bedouins knew good steel from bad steel, and I would think that the huge trade in blades between Europe and the region is a main factor in the decline of local blade manufacture, as there was no demand for them. Primarily because of the lack of proper heat treatment to them. The blade was properly sharpened, but the edge has been lost to time. The reason why blades were often refitted, be they Kaskara's, Saif's, Nimcha's, Takouba's, is because in these weapons were used within lawless, even primitive societies, which kept using swords and other edged weapons well into the 20th century, and most blades were heirloom items, passed down from father to son. That way, fittings get damaged from normal use with time, so they tend to get replaced.

Ariel, Lee, what type of epoxy do you suggest? Ive got all the kinds of epoxy i can find, but which type is most suitable?

6th October 2006, 06:59 PM	#1
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. Last edited by S.Al-Anizi; 6th October 2006 at 07:27 PM.

6th October 2006, 09:19 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Very nice piece. European blade and the mounts and grip look like gold over copper.

6th October 2006, 09:46 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thankyou for sharing such a piece. Spiral

6th October 2006, 10:27 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	I think we often under estimate the efficiency of the trade networks from pre-automotive times. I have had an interest in the takoubas of the Saharan Tuareg, and 19th century and earlier European blades are occasionally seen in these swords, even those belonging to persons living well off into the desert. We obviously can never know; your family's blade could have been lost by a member of the French foreign legion and made its way to Arabia by the timeless caravans or perhaps it made its way to the area as military surplus by more conventional channels. I imagine such European blades would have been valued at the time as well tempered, reliable steel. Has the blade been sharpened for a good cutting edge? So often, military sabers tend to be poorly sharpened. I have heard it told that the British were amazed how well their own sword blades could cut when they fell into local hands in India and were properly sharpened. In observing the takouba, it is difficult to get a good view of the evolution of the form from the examples you find in-situ; one must often turn to examples in European museums of known collection date. Paradoxically, the 'oldest' takoubas I would encounter were often, at the same time, the very 'newest,' having been remounted within the last decade or so. It is pretty difficult to locate an example of old mountings on those swords still being carried. I suspect this is common when the sword remains culturally alive, as opposed to being only a relic. How exciting it must be to hold a sword you know to have been carried by an ancestor. Turning to practical matters, you may wish to explore using an epoxy glue for fixing the grip to the guard; this avoids risking heat and can be reversed. I usually limit my treatment of blades to fine steel wool moistened with oil. Better to stop short than to over clean, in my opinion.

6th October 2006, 10:53 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I agree completely. Fix it witn minimal damage or alterations. After all, the main value of this sword is sentimental: would you want to take an old picture of your ancestor and Photoshop his wrinkles out? As to the blade: I have an Ethiopian Gourade with a Russian Zlatoust blade marked on the spine "August 1853". Go figure how it ended there..... Must have been quite a story. Gorgeous sword and a great family relic! Take very good care of it and be proud every time your grandma allows you to play with it for a while

7th October 2006, 12:22 PM	#6
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Thank you for the compliments battara, spiral, lee, and ariel. Lee, European blades were, as you said, valued at that time, primarily because of their good steel and excellent temper. Even though they were primitive, bedouins knew good steel from bad steel, and I would think that the huge trade in blades between Europe and the region is a main factor in the decline of local blade manufacture, as there was no demand for them. Primarily because of the lack of proper heat treatment to them. The blade was properly sharpened, but the edge has been lost to time. The reason why blades were often refitted, be they Kaskara's, Saif's, Nimcha's, Takouba's, is because in these weapons were used within lawless, even primitive societies, which kept using swords and other edged weapons well into the 20th century, and most blades were heirloom items, passed down from father to son. That way, fittings get damaged from normal use with time, so they tend to get replaced. Ariel, Lee, what type of epoxy do you suggest? Ive got all the kinds of epoxy i can find, but which type is most suitable?