Fighting with keris

David · 6th October 2006, 02:11 PM

Thanks for your post Zartane. Can't say that i can find enough credence in your idea (related from your teacher) that the Javanese stopped using the keris as a weapon due to Tameng Sari's loss to Hang Tuah. First of all, while i am sure that these were truly historical characters, i believe that their "history" is more legend than truth. Sort of like saying George Washington gave up using the hatchet after his embarassing encounter with the cherry tree.

Secondly, if this line of thinking was the case it would seem odd to me that the Javanese would continue to so greatly venerate the weapon that failed their greatest hero.
I see very little difference with the photo example you present as to how to hold a Javanese keris with the one Alan Maisey presented. You show a side view, Alan shows top and bottom. Yes, Alan shows a bend in the wrist which you probably would not have during use, but what he was trying to show us was the grip itself which is essentially the same as yours.I suspect that Alan may have been photographing his own hand here which would make it a little difficult to keep the wrist in proper position. Either way, his grip seems no less firm than your example.

Rick · 6th October 2006, 03:20 PM

Continuing along these lines of grip ; I would be very interested in seeing the way in which the keris scabbard would be gripped for use as a left hand parrying device .

Alam Shah · 6th October 2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Continuing along these lines of grip ; I would be very interested in seeing the way in which the keris scabbard would be gripped for use as a left hand parrying device .

In some Peninsular Malay silat form, the scabbard (sarung) serves a few purpose. To parry as well as a secondary assault tool. It is held with the scabbard facing the opponent, 2 fingers and the thumb holding the shaft (batang) of the scabbard, while the other 2 fingers support the cross-piece (sampir) from behind. In a single block, the sampir tips can be used to target the softer part of the opponent or used as a distraction while the blade in the other hand, move into a striking position.

BluErf · 6th October 2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Sort of like saying George Washington gave up using the hatchet after his embarassing encounter with the cherry tree.

Hey, wasn't this G.W. and the cherry tree tale a fallacy??

David · 6th October 2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hey, wasn't this G.W. and the cherry tree tale a fallacy??

Yes, Kai Wee, that would be an affirmative. That doesn't mean that i am suggesting that this famous duel didn't take place. It may have, it may not have. It may have happened, but not quite as it is told today. Such is the stuff of legends.

My point is that it would be difficult to base any academic conclusion on it.

Rick · 6th October 2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hey, wasn't this G.W. and the cherry tree tale a fallacy??

Maybe ....... but he did throw a silver dollar across the Potomac river ; I swear !!

David · 6th October 2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Maybe ....... but he did throw a silver dollar across the Potomac river ; I swear !!

You are absolutely correct Rick....in fact, i happen to own that very same silver dollar. It was passed down to me from my great-great-great-great-great-great gandpappy Jebediah Bulldungy, who just happened to be fishing the far bank at that time and lost his left eye when the coin hit him smack in the face!

I was going to put it up on eBay, but if any of my fellow forumite would like a good deal.....

Alam Shah · 6th October 2006, 03:28 PM

Here's another variation of holding a huge Sumatran keris.

Note: Left-hander... right hand holding the camera.

Personal preferred holding technique...

6th October 2006, 03:28 PM	#8
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Left-hander... Here's another variation of holding a huge Sumatran keris. Note: Left-hander... right hand holding the camera. Personal preferred holding technique...

6th October 2006, 02:11 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,240	Thanks for your post Zartane. Can't say that i can find enough credence in your idea (related from your teacher) that the Javanese stopped using the keris as a weapon due to Tameng Sari's loss to Hang Tuah. First of all, while i am sure that these were truly historical characters, i believe that their "history" is more legend than truth. Sort of like saying George Washington gave up using the hatchet after his embarassing encounter with the cherry tree. Secondly, if this line of thinking was the case it would seem odd to me that the Javanese would continue to so greatly venerate the weapon that failed their greatest hero. I see very little difference with the photo example you present as to how to hold a Javanese keris with the one Alan Maisey presented. You show a side view, Alan shows top and bottom. Yes, Alan shows a bend in the wrist which you probably would not have during use, but what he was trying to show us was the grip itself which is essentially the same as yours.I suspect that Alan may have been photographing his own hand here which would make it a little difficult to keep the wrist in proper position. Either way, his grip seems no less firm than your example.

6th October 2006, 03:20 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Continuing along these lines of grip ; I would be very interested in seeing the way in which the keris scabbard would be gripped for use as a left hand parrying device .