Ivory handle knife for comment. Arabic translation?

not2sharp · 21st September 2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Sorry N2S, it looks like it in the pix, but it is brass and some white metal.

Darn those pictures are tricky.

Unfortunately, that last set, leaves me with the impression that the handle is bone. I see what looks like pores for a vascular system (all of those tiny brown and red specs).

n2s

Doug M · 22nd September 2006, 05:15 PM

Just got back in...

One reason why my request may have seemed so guarded is because photography of ivory can be, well, particular. And I have been in contact with eBay sellers, for instance, who have been very defensive about their "ivory."

But not2sharp points out what I was wondering about. The cracks were also throwing me off since ivory ages and cracks. But is this due to the metal in the handle? Essentially, when I saw the first set of pictures, I thought, "That is bone." It is not uncommon to mistake ivory for bone. Maybe I can post some very old eBay pictures (a decade old, literally) of objects that are obviously bone but were sold as ivory.

Maybe one or two forumites who own similar pieces could shoot a close-up shot or two of his or her handle(s) to offer some comparison. Ivory that ages varies in color, cracks, etc. So while this comparison will not be as much a matter of A = B, it will offer more perspective. A grain should be visible at least, yet whether the camera will capture it or not is another matter.

Regardless, the piece looks nice, and that is the point, I suppose (from a collector's perspective, I mean). I would be happy with a piece like that.

You could take it to an antique dealer or auction gallery that usually sells ivory, and that person should be able to give you an assessment right away, the benefit being she or he will see the handle up close. This is, of course, only if the handle's material is a concern...

Sincerely,

Doug M

Lew · 22nd September 2006, 06:56 PM

Bill

A real nice dagger. The hilt seems to be bone and not ivory. The way to confirm if it's ivory is to look for the cross hatch matrix in the ivory. If you are really upset about it not being ivory please feel free to send it to me. It will have a good home here in N.J.

Lew

not2sharp · 22nd September 2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Bill

A real nice dagger. The hilt seems to be bone and not ivory. The way to confirm if it's ivory is to look for the cross hatch matrix in the ivory. If you are really upset about it not being ivory please feel free to send it to me. It will have a good home here in N.J.

Lew

Lew,
Can you post a picture of that "cross hatch matrix"?

n2s

Bill M · 23rd September 2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Bill

A real nice dagger. The hilt seems to be bone and not ivory. The way to confirm if it's ivory is to look for the cross hatch matrix in the ivory. If you are really upset about it not being ivory please feel free to send it to me. It will have a good home here in N.J.

Lew

Lew,

In hand, it seems to be ivory. The original seller is Fred Coluzzi and he thinks it is ivory.

If it is bone, it has a finer grain than I have seen before. Realize the handle is less than 3/4" in cross section so the pictures are quite an enlargement.

But it could be bone. I don't know. It is not a big deal to me one way or the other, I'd just like to know how to better determine what are the differences between bone and ivory and how to tell.

Thanks
Bill

Valjhun · 23rd September 2006, 02:26 PM

I think it is bone. At least all of thoose Bosnian bichak I've seen were bone. Also Balkan yataghans, there's always bone and not ivory.

spiral · 23rd September 2006, 03:41 PM

This site shows photos of the different angle of lines for identyfying both Elephant & mammoth ivory.{& bone features etc.

Spiral

link.

This is the Elephant one.

& mammoth.

Tim Simmons · 23rd September 2006, 04:14 PM

It looks a solid piece, 3/4 inch rather thick for most bone from the animals of the area. The few brown dot are hard to say with certainty blood vessel. It also looks quite fine. It could be from a toothed whale? from the Mediterranean/Black Sea? It does not have the soft look of well handled ivory?

22nd September 2006, 05:15 PM	#2
Doug M Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10	Just got back in... One reason why my request may have seemed so guarded is because photography of ivory can be, well, particular. And I have been in contact with eBay sellers, for instance, who have been very defensive about their "ivory." But not2sharp points out what I was wondering about. The cracks were also throwing me off since ivory ages and cracks. But is this due to the metal in the handle? Essentially, when I saw the first set of pictures, I thought, "That is bone." It is not uncommon to mistake ivory for bone. Maybe I can post some very old eBay pictures (a decade old, literally) of objects that are obviously bone but were sold as ivory. Maybe one or two forumites who own similar pieces could shoot a close-up shot or two of his or her handle(s) to offer some comparison. Ivory that ages varies in color, cracks, etc. So while this comparison will not be as much a matter of A = B, it will offer more perspective. A grain should be visible at least, yet whether the camera will capture it or not is another matter. Regardless, the piece looks nice, and that is the point, I suppose (from a collector's perspective, I mean). I would be happy with a piece like that. You could take it to an antique dealer or auction gallery that usually sells ivory, and that person should be able to give you an assessment right away, the benefit being she or he will see the handle up close. This is, of course, only if the handle's material is a concern... Sincerely, Doug M

22nd September 2006, 06:56 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill A real nice dagger. The hilt seems to be bone and not ivory. The way to confirm if it's ivory is to look for the cross hatch matrix in the ivory. If you are really upset about it not being ivory please feel free to send it to me. It will have a good home here in N.J. Lew

23rd September 2006, 02:26 PM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	I think it is bone. At least all of thoose Bosnian bichak I've seen were bone. Also Balkan yataghans, there's always bone and not ivory.

23rd September 2006, 03:41 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	This site shows photos of the different angle of lines for identyfying both Elephant & mammoth ivory.{& bone features etc. Spiral link. This is the Elephant one. & mammoth.

23rd September 2006, 04:14 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	It looks a solid piece, 3/4 inch rather thick for most bone from the animals of the area. The few brown dot are hard to say with certainty blood vessel. It also looks quite fine. It could be from a toothed whale? from the Mediterranean/Black Sea? It does not have the soft look of well handled ivory?