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Lee · 20th September 2006, 09:00 AM

I never know what will catch my eye when I go to the giant flea market over in Brimfield, MA. Earlier this month, I brought this home. I do know what it is, now, at least generically. I'll pop in a link to a site about these things later, but solicit any opinions first.

Ian · 20th September 2006, 12:57 PM

Hi Lee.

Interesting looking small blade and handle. Seems to me it is a tool of some sort, rather than a weapon. A little like a farrier's knife for cleaning horse's hooves, but this looks too nice for such a mundane purpose.

My first thought was an old fleam to let blood from horses, people. A popular practice in the 19th C. Otherwise, I suppose it could be a wood working tool for carving or some other small knife purpose.

I don't think it is a Native American knife ("crooked knife"). It has a nice "folk" look to the hilt and the whipping on the handle does not strike me as Native American. Blade looks sturdy and forged.

Be interested to hear what others think.

Ian.

Lee · 22nd September 2006, 09:50 AM

Hi Ian,

I think that this actually is a "crooked knife" functionally as it clearly fits in the hand to be used as a single-handed draw knife. It has some age to it, but I would hesitate to put this particular example of the tool before the first half of the 20th century and I would similarly hestitate to identify this particular example's cultural origin.

A couple of good links I found to "crooked knives":

Mo-co-ta-gan: Crooked Knives
Mocotaugan: The Story and Art of the Crooked Knife

Tim Simmons · 22nd September 2006, 08:43 PM

I have seen a "crooked" knife in a local junk shop. I will see if it is still there in the morning and if cheap enough buy it to compare. It has an antler handle and no binding with absolutely no indication that it is not English. A rural or urban for all that matters, farriers search tool. I really know nothing about horses being more of a Townie.

Ian · 22nd September 2006, 09:36 PM

Lee:

It was the blade that put me off. I think of "crooked knives" as having more square-ended blades with a terminal hook. But I see from your referenced sites that not all blades have such an appearance.

It seems curious that this style is unknown to occur before the 19th C.

Ian.

Spunjer · 18th October 2006, 03:00 PM

never thought i get to see one of these in my collection, but i guess every now and then even the blind dog gets lucky. just got it yesterday. being beautified at the moment (pedicure, manicure,hot wax treatment...). will post better pics in the future. pic one by itself, pic two, the handle, and pic three compared with a barung for size comparison.

OAL= 24.5"
Blade= 18"
Blade thickness (by the hilt)=7/16"
Width at the widest point= 2.5"

pretty much the classic bangkung described on cato's book. banati handle with silver punto.

mross · 18th October 2006, 05:02 PM

Very nice. I would say that's a very lucky dog!

The Double D · 18th October 2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I never know what will catch my eye when I go to the giant flea market over in Brimfield, MA. Earlier this month, I brought this home. I do know what it is, now, at least generically. I'll pop in a link to a site about these things later, but solicit any opinions first.

Don't mean to be flip, but this looks like a table knife stuck in carved piece of wood.

kino · 20th October 2006, 12:06 AM

Hey Spunger, Post some photos after you clean it up. Good catch!

Spunjer · 20th October 2006, 01:36 AM

shoots, kino..
just got done etching the blade and the lamination is pretty cool! i dunno anything about different types, but the best i can describe this would be sandwiching metal sheets and shaping the blade from there. the other sundang i have that i think would have a similar pattern would be the garab i have. i'm enclosing a picture of the garab's lamination. will take pics of the bangkung's lamination tomorrow...

Spunjer · 20th October 2006, 02:45 PM

here's the blade. i believe it's the first picture where it looks as if the blade was used to block what appears to be an incoming blow, so much so that it made a dent and separated the lamination weld. i would say it's a battle scar. on the bottom picture, you could almost see the 'stepladder' (for a better lack of terms) lamination on the blade, left side...

Spunjer · 22nd October 2006, 03:15 PM

back to her glory days...

kino · 22nd October 2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

on the bottom picture, you could almost see the 'stepladder' (for a better lack of terms) lamination on the blade, left side...

Spunger, Good clean-up job. I think my lousy monitor doesn't show the pattern on the Bangkung. Too dark.

Here is my Bangkung. The silver Punto is a later replacement done by our own Battara, stand up B and wave your hand, so everyone can see you.

Ian · 22nd October 2006, 07:17 PM

Ron:

That's quite a dent. Possibly a strike from a bullet?

Ian.

20th September 2006, 09:00 AM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	From the Brimfield, Mass. Flea Market this Fall I never know what will catch my eye when I go to the giant flea market over in Brimfield, MA. Earlier this month, I brought this home. I do know what it is, now, at least generically. I'll pop in a link to a site about these things later, but solicit any opinions first. Attached Images

18th October 2006, 03:00 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	The rare bangkung never thought i get to see one of these in my collection, but i guess every now and then even the blind dog gets lucky. just got it yesterday. being beautified at the moment (pedicure, manicure,hot wax treatment...). will post better pics in the future. pic one by itself, pic two, the handle, and pic three compared with a barung for size comparison. OAL= 24.5" Blade= 18" Blade thickness (by the hilt)=7/16" Width at the widest point= 2.5" pretty much the classic bangkung described on cato's book. banati handle with silver punto. Attached Images

20th October 2006, 01:36 AM	#10
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	shoots, kino.. just got done etching the blade and the lamination is pretty cool! i dunno anything about different types, but the best i can describe this would be sandwiching metal sheets and shaping the blade from there. the other sundang i have that i think would have a similar pattern would be the garab i have. i'm enclosing a picture of the garab's lamination. will take pics of the bangkung's lamination tomorrow... Attached Images

20th October 2006, 02:45 PM	#11
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	here's the blade. i believe it's the first picture where it looks as if the blade was used to block what appears to be an incoming blow, so much so that it made a dent and separated the lamination weld. i would say it's a battle scar. on the bottom picture, you could almost see the 'stepladder' (for a better lack of terms) lamination on the blade, left side... Attached Images

22nd October 2006, 03:15 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Bangkung back to her glory days... Attached Images

20th September 2006, 12:57 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Hi Lee. Interesting looking small blade and handle. Seems to me it is a tool of some sort, rather than a weapon. A little like a farrier's knife for cleaning horse's hooves, but this looks too nice for such a mundane purpose. My first thought was an old fleam to let blood from horses, people. A popular practice in the 19th C. Otherwise, I suppose it could be a wood working tool for carving or some other small knife purpose. I don't think it is a Native American knife ("crooked knife"). It has a nice "folk" look to the hilt and the whipping on the handle does not strike me as Native American. Blade looks sturdy and forged. Be interested to hear what others think. Ian.

22nd September 2006, 09:50 AM	#3
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Hi Ian, I think that this actually is a "crooked knife" functionally as it clearly fits in the hand to be used as a single-handed draw knife. It has some age to it, but I would hesitate to put this particular example of the tool before the first half of the 20th century and I would similarly hestitate to identify this particular example's cultural origin. A couple of good links I found to "crooked knives": Mo-co-ta-gan: Crooked Knives Mocotaugan: The Story and Art of the Crooked Knife

22nd September 2006, 08:43 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I have seen a "crooked" knife in a local junk shop. I will see if it is still there in the morning and if cheap enough buy it to compare. It has an antler handle and no binding with absolutely no indication that it is not English. A rural or urban for all that matters, farriers search tool. I really know nothing about horses being more of a Townie.

22nd September 2006, 09:36 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Lee: It was the blade that put me off. I think of "crooked knives" as having more square-ended blades with a terminal hook. But I see from your referenced sites that not all blades have such an appearance. It seems curious that this style is unknown to occur before the 19th C. Ian.

18th October 2006, 05:02 PM	#7
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Very nice. I would say that's a very lucky dog!

20th October 2006, 12:06 AM	#9
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,018	Hey Spunger, Post some photos after you clean it up. Good catch!

22nd October 2006, 07:17 PM	#14
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Ron: That's quite a dent. Possibly a strike from a bullet? Ian.