Sword ID Indian,English, Arabian?

Ian · 1st September 2006, 10:35 PM

Congrats. Nice example and unusual balde.

John Crosby (rhysmichael) has a growing collection of these swords and would be another good resource person for further information.

Ian

RhysMichael · 3rd September 2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Congrats. Nice example and unusual balde.

John Crosby (rhysmichael) has a growing collection of these swords and would be another good resource person for further information.

Ian

Thanks for the kind words Ian but I think most of what I could tell them has already been said. I do like the way the woods were mated at the mouth of the scabbard rather than making it all from a single piece of wood. A nice sword,

B.I · 3rd September 2006, 11:00 PM

hi,
i cant believe there isnt more information to be offered. if not on this particular sword, but on this type in general. its not indian, and so i have never spent much time with them, but as a descendant from a very important indian form, i think they are fascinating.
jim and rick (stroud) - please step up (sorry, or anyone else?) as i would love to know more.

also, i had assumed this to be a brass hilt, as most were. but from the tang button and the detached pommel, it seems to be gilt. is this the case? what material is the hilt made from?

RhysMichael · 3rd September 2006, 11:23 PM

Charles Saunders may also be able to add a great deal about these as I recall he has some great examples

Well as I said above all I know has mostly been added. This is called a piso podang by stone and von Zonneveld , The curved ones are referred to by Gardner as "pedang shamshir" ( G. B. Gardner in KERIS AND OTHER MALAY WEAPONS). Piso may be a variant of the word pisau , and podang peudeung and pedang certainly have similar roots ( in my mind at least ) .
With Piso Podang the hilt is usually cast in one piece where the hilt of many tulwar are cast in two pieces and joined . They are known to have local blades, indian blades, european blades and even rarely wootz blades. These swords (Piso Podang) are most commanly found amongst the Batak in Sumatra. However, there are appearantly some references that do show Iban Dayak carrying Piso Podang. It should be noted that the Batak are non-islamic( Actually Batak is a general name for 6 groups with different cultural and linguistic characteristics, but they believe in a descent of a common ancestor) , and most references to them do not tell of their origin but do talk of the Hindu and Chinese influence. It is believed this sword form came through the Hindu influence as noted above

Some links on it
http://blade.japet.com/Pedang-Podang.htm
http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/pedang_sab/ped08.htm

Some other pictures of these
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=960

There are variants of the hilt
http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/...d/pisohilt.jpg

B.I · 4th September 2006, 12:12 AM

thanks RhysMichael,
the first link is the most interesting, as it appears to have a pretty early example (although i would love to see a closer image). most i have seen seem to be of a later age. as their influence came from an early indian hilt form, which 'died' out, it must have travelled across in the 16thC. so, there must be early examples out there. are you familiar with any. the ont you show is a great and typical example, but cant see it dating before the 18thC (or maybe later?)
the one in elgoods book is definately indian and 16thC, and is a great forerunner of all of these swords, as the form is almost identical.

mykeris · 4th September 2006, 03:26 AM

Here some more close-up pics of the hilt. This sword actually was acquired from an old Minangkabau family living in Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia. It was told that it was their only pusaka (heirloom).

ariel · 4th September 2006, 03:35 AM

My understanding is that the word "podang" comes from Portugese "espadao" (pronounced as espadang).

RhysMichael · 4th September 2006, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

My understanding is that the word "podang" comes from Portugese "espadao" (pronounced as espadang).

That could well be arial, I have not been able to find anything on it but podang (Batak), peudeung ( Aceh) and pedang (Javanese) all mean sword don't they ?

RhysMichael · 4th September 2006, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeris

Here some more close-up pics of the hilt. This sword actually was acquired from an old Minangkabau family living in Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia. It was told that it was their only pusaka (heirloom).

Thats interesting. Don't the the Minangkabau also have the strange "horned roof" houses similar to the Batak ? I wonder if there is more of a common heritage there than I ever knew about

mykeris · 4th September 2006, 04:00 AM

The blade is straight and is 36 inches long in scabbard even longer than the ordinary batak's swords of only 27 inches. Dont you think, the blade was originally taken from any English swords or something else?

3rd September 2006, 11:23 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Charles Saunders may also be able to add a great deal about these as I recall he has some great examples Well as I said above all I know has mostly been added. This is called a piso podang by stone and von Zonneveld , The curved ones are referred to by Gardner as "pedang shamshir" ( G. B. Gardner in KERIS AND OTHER MALAY WEAPONS). Piso may be a variant of the word pisau , and podang peudeung and pedang certainly have similar roots ( in my mind at least ) . With Piso Podang the hilt is usually cast in one piece where the hilt of many tulwar are cast in two pieces and joined . They are known to have local blades, indian blades, european blades and even rarely wootz blades. These swords (Piso Podang) are most commanly found amongst the Batak in Sumatra. However, there are appearantly some references that do show Iban Dayak carrying Piso Podang. It should be noted that the Batak are non-islamic( Actually Batak is a general name for 6 groups with different cultural and linguistic characteristics, but they believe in a descent of a common ancestor) , and most references to them do not tell of their origin but do talk of the Hindu and Chinese influence. It is believed this sword form came through the Hindu influence as noted above Some links on it http://blade.japet.com/Pedang-Podang.htm http://old.blades.free.fr/swords/pedang_sab/ped08.htm Some other pictures of these http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/item.php?id=960 There are variants of the hilt http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/...d/pisohilt.jpg Last edited by RhysMichael; 4th September 2006 at 12:02 AM.

4th September 2006, 03:26 AM	#6
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	More pics Here some more close-up pics of the hilt. This sword actually was acquired from an old Minangkabau family living in Negeri Sembilan, Malaysia. It was told that it was their only pusaka (heirloom). Attached Images

1st September 2006, 10:35 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Congrats. Nice example and unusual balde. John Crosby (rhysmichael) has a growing collection of these swords and would be another good resource person for further information. Ian

3rd September 2006, 11:00 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi, i cant believe there isnt more information to be offered. if not on this particular sword, but on this type in general. its not indian, and so i have never spent much time with them, but as a descendant from a very important indian form, i think they are fascinating. jim and rick (stroud) - please step up (sorry, or anyone else?) as i would love to know more. also, i had assumed this to be a brass hilt, as most were. but from the tang button and the detached pommel, it seems to be gilt. is this the case? what material is the hilt made from?

4th September 2006, 12:12 AM	#5
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	thanks RhysMichael, the first link is the most interesting, as it appears to have a pretty early example (although i would love to see a closer image). most i have seen seem to be of a later age. as their influence came from an early indian hilt form, which 'died' out, it must have travelled across in the 16thC. so, there must be early examples out there. are you familiar with any. the ont you show is a great and typical example, but cant see it dating before the 18thC (or maybe later?) the one in elgoods book is definately indian and 16thC, and is a great forerunner of all of these swords, as the form is almost identical.

4th September 2006, 03:35 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	My understanding is that the word "podang" comes from Portugese "espadao" (pronounced as espadang).

4th September 2006, 04:00 AM	#10
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	The blade is straight and is 36 inches long in scabbard even longer than the ordinary batak's swords of only 27 inches. Dont you think, the blade was originally taken from any English swords or something else?