Best sources for seeing,handling & purchasing Keris ?

Mick · 4th February 2005, 08:37 PM

Boswego

The Great Western Show used to be a fine place to see and pick up good kerises at fair prices. Thanks to the county this show was run out of Los Angles (those horrible gun things were sold there). It has since moved to Fort Worth Texas.

The first couple of years the show did not draw as well and nearly dumped, now it has drawn for a couple of years and looks to be up to about 1100 tables this year. This is still a lot less than the 1500 to 2000 tables that it used to draw. I haven't been to the new location, but if you can find the time, it might be worth checking out. If you do so, please report your finding back to the forum for our edification.

Rick · 4th February 2005, 09:48 PM

The keris (not krisses) that I tend to collect are new ones sold to me by a Dealer that I trust implicitly . The new pieces he sells are the best of the affordable work coming out of Indonesia today . That solves any question of fakery for me .

I agree with Nechesh , I shun the Indo / Malay dealers on ebay .

There is only one Dealer from SG that I would feel safe dealing with , he is a long standing member here .

Boswego , you were very lucky to get that kris for thirty beans ; if you want to start collecting Moro kris you will need deep pockets except for the occasional sleeper you may stumble across . The Moro swords that I have collected over the last 7 years or so have doubled , tripled , and in some cases quadrupled in value since I purchased them .

I blame General Order #11 for this .

Above all I would add that an informed collector is an astute collector .
In other words buy books first , knowledge is buying power .

Boswego · 4th February 2005, 11:16 PM

Rick & Necesh-Thanks for the great advice.Rick,You are right-on about good Referrence Books.The better educated Antique Dealers I've met over the last 35 years frequently spend hundreds to thousands annually on good Ref Books.Even w/ the Internet,You still need to shell out those precious doubloons for the scholarly hard copy.
P.S.-I really made My Darlins day when I brought this Keris home-ethnographic antiquities can have a lot of 'Power', artistically and 'vibe'-wise too.These Cultures really beleived and invested power into the creation and usage of these items(similar to a Catholic with a cherised Rosary or a relic from a Saint)-potent,fascinating stuff.

Rick · 4th February 2005, 11:49 PM

Boswego ,
You are located in an area which may well have a greater abundance of Moro swords as soldiers from both Oregon and WA. were well represented during the Span Am war ; I have bought a lot of old Philippine edged weapons from your area .

Also,
What you bought is a 'kris' a term we use here to identify Moro examples .
All the other types are referred to in this forum as 'keris' .

It's a niggling little point but it helps to define which form we are discussing .

BTW , I was wondering if Vancouver might also be an area of interest due to its burgeoning Asian populace .

There is a wealth of information to be found on this subject (kris keris) by searching the old forum archives , have fun .

It's too late for you now buddy , I can see the signs of addiction already .

Sang Keris · 5th February 2005, 01:57 AM

i don't think giving too much trust only to one dealer is wise...

the best way is you have to cross the information from every source......from dealers or collectors....

remember .. those dealers also have dealers.....tht's why a dealer have to be able to cross info from every dealers .....thats how they become a dealer.
u think someone can be a dealer without enough knowledge?

and ... do you really think, that you will have enough knowledge to make different between new and old keris from books?

Rick · 5th February 2005, 02:06 AM

Last warning Sang keris ........

All you do is muddy the waters around here .
I'm getting tired of it .

Boswego · 5th February 2005, 02:31 AM

Thanks for the tip about the correct term 'Kris' (it'll help w/ google purchases).
As for getting 'gyped'by a modern repro-after 35 years of collecting/dealing in antiques-I'm pretty good at sensing age... BUT.... I realize there are some brilliant forgers out there in everything from Chinese porcelains (of course in the 18th century they were forging Ming ceramics,and tons of 14th-16th century arms & armor were created in the 19th century).And my last,but not least wall of protection-I'm a confirmed Cheapskate ! (wont shell-out'real' money for something I have doubts about-until i hit the Lotto of course-then I'll gamble !).I'll have to check out some of the new Kris & Keris on the Web.....any highly reccommend good trustworthy sites online ?

DhenTal · 5th February 2005, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

........ The new pieces he sells are the best of the affordable work coming out of Indonesia today . That solves any question of fakery for me .

I agree with Nechesh , I shun the Indo / Malay dealers on ebay .
There is only one Dealer from SG that I would feel safe dealing with , he is a long standing member here . .

.........
Rick, you are a vikingswords staff. But I don't know, how did you can posted a statement like that ? It is so tendensius for me...., really. Did a staff can give a adjustment like yours ?

Feel free guys.

I can suppose whose the dealer in Singapore that what you mean, but I don't say in this great forum.
I just tell you that in his site, he posted some a new kris too (indeed fake) that he said it was old piece and made by good iron... but, I don't think so.
Don't you guess that him kris, spesifically javanese kris, is a great kris.
For me, some of him javanese kris just a fake kris which sell for high price

.

Please, don't give a sentiment statement like that, because many forumities came in from many country and they have a difference experience to looking for some good kris... spesifically Indonesian dan Malaysian deallers or collector. They can feel offended by your statement

In Malay and Indo, still had a many dealer which have a good knowledge then you or dealer in online shopping and they have an integrity too. I myself, still trust to them which have no posted the piece at website or online shopping like that. If they selling some piece, they give a complete explanations about their kris with no deceive with a reasonable price.

So, please.. try to feel free and no tendensius adjustment

Sorry if I have a mistake in my posted

Thanks.

Sang Keris · 5th February 2005, 10:54 AM

[COLOR=Navy] It's just an advice, you may take it or ignore it... it's all up to you , .. no need to use A MAD ICON to talk..

Naga Basuki · 5th February 2005, 11:14 AM

Is it appropriate to mention dealers I like?

I have bought many pieces from them. I would recommend them as keris dealers and men of integrity.

I will wait for a staff response from Viking Sword, but I will send the names to Sang Keris privately.

Battara · 5th February 2005, 01:41 PM

Speaking of eBay and kris (Moro), books and handling are the best ways to tell authenticity. I never buy anything I haven't researched. This means that I pass up things sometimes, but then again, I have only been burned once.

Also, this helps in what to look for, say, when the pictures are bad. If you look at my avatar picture, the blade is WWII, but the hilt that you see is older and made of silver, swaasa (gold, copper, silver mix), and ivory. I got this puppy on eBay several years ago for.....dirt (less than $400 and I don't plan on selling it

). No one else bid on it because the pictures were aweful. However, I could tell enough about the metal work and ivory to be the only one to bid and won!

Again, research helped me out on this to see beyond the terrible picture (and the dealer was honest).

Boswego · 5th February 2005, 02:52 PM

In the first year of eBay a lot of Dealers used to get amazing deals from naive sellers.They'd find mispelled items like 'Tiffeny' (instead of Tiffany),or 'Caris Sord',etc,and get some great deals.You can still find some very nice new & old Ethnographic Art there.Native American artifact prices (generally pre-1940) have gone flat-out insane.Being a rookie-the only thing I can really judge a Keris & Kris by would be the quality of craftsmanship and design (new or old piece)-NOT by how bizarre or flashy it is.

Andrew · 5th February 2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DhenTal

.........
Rick, you are a vikingswords staff. But I don't know, how did you can posted a statement like that ? It is so tendensius for me...., really. Did a staff can give a adjustment like yours ?

Feel free guys.

I can suppose whose the dealer in Singapore that what you mean, but I don't say in this great forum.
I just tell you that in his site, he posted some a new kris too (indeed fake) that he said it was old piece and made by good iron... but, I don't think so.
Don't you guess that him kris, spesifically javanese kris, is a great kris.
For me, some of him javanese kris just a fake kris which sell for high price

.

Please, don't give a sentiment statement like that, because many forumities came in from many country and they have a difference experience to looking for some good kris... spesifically Indonesian dan Malaysian deallers or collector. They can feel offended by your statement

In Malay and Indo, still had a many dealer which have a good knowledge then you or dealer in online shopping and they have an integrity too. I myself, still trust to them which have no posted the piece at website or online shopping like that. If they selling some piece, they give a complete explanations about their kris with no deceive with a reasonable price.

So, please.. try to feel free and no tendensius adjustment

Sorry if I have a mistake in my posted

Thanks.

The mistake you have made in your post is to presume that Vikingsword Staff are not entitled to their opinions. I can't see how Rick's post would offend anyone except an unscrupulous eBay dealer, as that is clearly the class of individuals his comment was directed at.

Are you an eBay dealer?

4th February 2005, 11:49 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	One Thing Boswego , You are located in an area which may well have a greater abundance of Moro swords as soldiers from both Oregon and WA. were well represented during the Span Am war ; I have bought a lot of old Philippine edged weapons from your area . Also, What you bought is a 'kris' a term we use here to identify Moro examples . All the other types are referred to in this forum as 'keris' . It's a niggling little point but it helps to define which form we are discussing . BTW , I was wondering if Vancouver might also be an area of interest due to its burgeoning Asian populace . There is a wealth of information to be found on this subject (kris keris) by searching the old forum archives , have fun . It's too late for you now buddy , I can see the signs of addiction already .

4th February 2005, 08:37 PM	#1
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	Boswego The Great Western Show used to be a fine place to see and pick up good kerises at fair prices. Thanks to the county this show was run out of Los Angles (those horrible gun things were sold there). It has since moved to Fort Worth Texas. The first couple of years the show did not draw as well and nearly dumped, now it has drawn for a couple of years and looks to be up to about 1100 tables this year. This is still a lot less than the 1500 to 2000 tables that it used to draw. I haven't been to the new location, but if you can find the time, it might be worth checking out. If you do so, please report your finding back to the forum for our edification.

4th February 2005, 09:48 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	The keris (not krisses) that I tend to collect are new ones sold to me by a Dealer that I trust implicitly . The new pieces he sells are the best of the affordable work coming out of Indonesia today . That solves any question of fakery for me . I agree with Nechesh , I shun the Indo / Malay dealers on ebay . There is only one Dealer from SG that I would feel safe dealing with , he is a long standing member here . Boswego , you were very lucky to get that kris for thirty beans ; if you want to start collecting Moro kris you will need deep pockets except for the occasional sleeper you may stumble across . The Moro swords that I have collected over the last 7 years or so have doubled , tripled , and in some cases quadrupled in value since I purchased them . I blame General Order #11 for this . Above all I would add that an informed collector is an astute collector . In other words buy books first , knowledge is buying power .

4th February 2005, 11:16 PM	#3
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Rick & Necesh-Thanks for the great advice.Rick,You are right-on about good Referrence Books.The better educated Antique Dealers I've met over the last 35 years frequently spend hundreds to thousands annually on good Ref Books.Even w/ the Internet,You still need to shell out those precious doubloons for the scholarly hard copy. P.S.-I really made My Darlins day when I brought this Keris home-ethnographic antiquities can have a lot of 'Power', artistically and 'vibe'-wise too.These Cultures really beleived and invested power into the creation and usage of these items(similar to a Catholic with a cherised Rosary or a relic from a Saint)-potent,fascinating stuff.

5th February 2005, 01:57 AM	#5
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	i don't think giving too much trust only to one dealer is wise... the best way is you have to cross the information from every source......from dealers or collectors.... remember .. those dealers also have dealers.....tht's why a dealer have to be able to cross info from every dealers .....thats how they become a dealer. u think someone can be a dealer without enough knowledge? and ... do you really think, that you will have enough knowledge to make different between new and old keris from books?

5th February 2005, 02:06 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Last warning Sang keris ........ All you do is muddy the waters around here . I'm getting tired of it .

5th February 2005, 02:31 AM	#7
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	Thanks for the tip about the correct term 'Kris' (it'll help w/ google purchases). As for getting 'gyped'by a modern repro-after 35 years of collecting/dealing in antiques-I'm pretty good at sensing age... BUT.... I realize there are some brilliant forgers out there in everything from Chinese porcelains (of course in the 18th century they were forging Ming ceramics,and tons of 14th-16th century arms & armor were created in the 19th century).And my last,but not least wall of protection-I'm a confirmed Cheapskate ! (wont shell-out'real' money for something I have doubts about-until i hit the Lotto of course-then I'll gamble !).I'll have to check out some of the new Kris & Keris on the Web.....any highly reccommend good trustworthy sites online ?

5th February 2005, 10:54 AM	#9
Sang Keris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indonesia Posts: 46	[COLOR=Navy] It's just an advice, you may take it or ignore it... it's all up to you , .. no need to use A MAD ICON to talk..

5th February 2005, 11:14 AM	#10
Naga Basuki Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big old machine shop/foundry/warehouse in Atlanta GA USA Posts: 51	Is it appropriate to mention dealers I like? I have bought many pieces from them. I would recommend them as keris dealers and men of integrity. I will wait for a staff response from Viking Sword, but I will send the names to Sang Keris privately.

5th February 2005, 01:41 PM	#11
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,304	Speaking of eBay and kris (Moro), books and handling are the best ways to tell authenticity. I never buy anything I haven't researched. This means that I pass up things sometimes, but then again, I have only been burned once. Also, this helps in what to look for, say, when the pictures are bad. If you look at my avatar picture, the blade is WWII, but the hilt that you see is older and made of silver, swaasa (gold, copper, silver mix), and ivory. I got this puppy on eBay several years ago for.....dirt (less than $400 and I don't plan on selling it ). No one else bid on it because the pictures were aweful. However, I could tell enough about the metal work and ivory to be the only one to bid and won! Again, research helped me out on this to see beyond the terrible picture (and the dealer was honest).

5th February 2005, 02:52 PM	#12
Boswego Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 23	In the first year of eBay a lot of Dealers used to get amazing deals from naive sellers.They'd find mispelled items like 'Tiffeny' (instead of Tiffany),or 'Caris Sord',etc,and get some great deals.You can still find some very nice new & old Ethnographic Art there.Native American artifact prices (generally pre-1940) have gone flat-out insane.Being a rookie-the only thing I can really judge a Keris & Kris by would be the quality of craftsmanship and design (new or old piece)-NOT by how bizarre or flashy it is.