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VVV · 24th August 2006, 04:44 PM

Triadi,

Are you referring to the discussion in Woolley's article - The Malay Keris It's Origin and Development?
In this article he discuss a theory from Williams' article - Suggested Origin of the Malay Keris - that the Keris was developed from an earlier Malay spear weapon. But Woolley seems to think that Williams' arguments are "unconvincing".

Michael

KRMH Triadi · 24th August 2006, 07:03 PM

Once again I apologize for my poor english, the keris I refer to my statement before was a Trisula but with a lower part of regular keris, not spear. I am trying to have a good pic to show what I mean, since this keris is now my own personal keris that I have to wear on every court ceremonial in Keraton. I would love to have more disscussion regarding my keris since I am very new to keris world. I will try to have better pics with much better focus on close-ups.
Best regards

David · 24th August 2006, 07:31 PM

I have seen this dapur before on many ocassions, but i am afraid i have very little information on it's purpose or meaning. I do not, however, believe that this form was created with the intention of it ever being presented as a spear. Many of the examples i have seen have been obviously revision pieces cut from old keris. I have only ever seen them in photographs and have never handled one, but perhaps some of our more learned forumites know more about them.
Would you mind sharing with us what your duties at kraton ceremonies are?

KRMH Triadi · 25th August 2006, 04:21 AM

This keris has been in my family since my great, great grandfather and now it is my turn to hold it. I was hoping that I can have more information regarding it, like I said, I have soo little knowledge about keris but starting now I have to learn so much more.
I just got married last year with the oldest daughter of Sri Susuhunan Pakoe Boewono XIII of Surakarta (which I did not realize when we were going out...hehehe). So from now on I have to attend all the royal ceremony in Keraton including Jumenengan, Suro, Grebeg etc. Then my family said that I have to start wearing my family pusaka for it. These are my reason I joined this forum, so I can learned more about keris and hopefully I can share what I gain from my new family in Solo.
Best regards

Alam Shah · 25th August 2006, 05:00 AM

Welcome Triadi,

Perhaps, a closer shot of the blade would assist us in identifying the blade details.
Btw, normally pusaka's are not openly displayed for public viewing, unless you think it's ok, that is. Thank you for sharing the keris with us. ... Alam Shah

KRMH Triadi · 25th August 2006, 05:43 AM

Thank you Alam

That's the reason I need to know sorrounding keris pusaka, it is my family pusaka, and I am waiting for my "communication" with my pusaka, whether he could be shown to public or not. Ki Ageng Pamulung Panembung Catur should gave me a sign pretty soon about it (thats the keris soul). For every Suro ceremony, the Keraton always clean all the Keraton Pusaka, but the very powerfull ones cannot be shown to public but only to the people that has been sworn for secrecy by the king (so far I know only 7 people). Those that are considerate "just" powerful I have seen it during some ceremonies. Thank you for the information. I will try to have more detailed pics regarding my keris.
Best regards

Henk · 25th August 2006, 09:47 AM

Triadi,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your keris. I've seen such keris before and I do like this appearance.

I do remember that such a keris dapur has been discussed before in the forum. If i remeber well it was said that those dapurs were made later in the kerisblade to make it more attractive and also to sell to the tourists.

If i count well you are the fifth generation holding this keris. Was this dapur made originally when your great, greatgrandfather received this keris? Or was this dapur added later to the keris? Does your family know?

24th August 2006, 07:03 PM	#2
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	Once again I apologize for my poor english, the keris I refer to my statement before was a Trisula but with a lower part of regular keris, not spear. I am trying to have a good pic to show what I mean, since this keris is now my own personal keris that I have to wear on every court ceremonial in Keraton. I would love to have more disscussion regarding my keris since I am very new to keris world. I will try to have better pics with much better focus on close-ups. Best regards Attached Images

24th August 2006, 04:44 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Triadi, Are you referring to the discussion in Woolley's article - The Malay Keris It's Origin and Development? In this article he discuss a theory from Williams' article - Suggested Origin of the Malay Keris - that the Keris was developed from an earlier Malay spear weapon. But Woolley seems to think that Williams' arguments are "unconvincing". Michael

24th August 2006, 07:31 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	I have seen this dapur before on many ocassions, but i am afraid i have very little information on it's purpose or meaning. I do not, however, believe that this form was created with the intention of it ever being presented as a spear. Many of the examples i have seen have been obviously revision pieces cut from old keris. I have only ever seen them in photographs and have never handled one, but perhaps some of our more learned forumites know more about them. Would you mind sharing with us what your duties at kraton ceremonies are?

25th August 2006, 04:21 AM	#4
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	This keris has been in my family since my great, great grandfather and now it is my turn to hold it. I was hoping that I can have more information regarding it, like I said, I have soo little knowledge about keris but starting now I have to learn so much more. I just got married last year with the oldest daughter of Sri Susuhunan Pakoe Boewono XIII of Surakarta (which I did not realize when we were going out...hehehe). So from now on I have to attend all the royal ceremony in Keraton including Jumenengan, Suro, Grebeg etc. Then my family said that I have to start wearing my family pusaka for it. These are my reason I joined this forum, so I can learned more about keris and hopefully I can share what I gain from my new family in Solo. Best regards

25th August 2006, 05:00 AM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Welcome Triadi, Perhaps, a closer shot of the blade would assist us in identifying the blade details. Btw, normally pusaka's are not openly displayed for public viewing, unless you think it's ok, that is. Thank you for sharing the keris with us. ... Alam Shah

25th August 2006, 05:43 AM	#6
KRMH Triadi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indonesia Posts: 7	Thank you Alam That's the reason I need to know sorrounding keris pusaka, it is my family pusaka, and I am waiting for my "communication" with my pusaka, whether he could be shown to public or not. Ki Ageng Pamulung Panembung Catur should gave me a sign pretty soon about it (thats the keris soul). For every Suro ceremony, the Keraton always clean all the Keraton Pusaka, but the very powerfull ones cannot be shown to public but only to the people that has been sworn for secrecy by the king (so far I know only 7 people). Those that are considerate "just" powerful I have seen it during some ceremonies. Thank you for the information. I will try to have more detailed pics regarding my keris. Best regards

25th August 2006, 09:47 AM	#7
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Triadi, Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your keris. I've seen such keris before and I do like this appearance. I do remember that such a keris dapur has been discussed before in the forum. If i remeber well it was said that those dapurs were made later in the kerisblade to make it more attractive and also to sell to the tourists. If i count well you are the fifth generation holding this keris. Was this dapur made originally when your great, greatgrandfather received this keris? Or was this dapur added later to the keris? Does your family know?