Keris Bugis Raja Gundala

David · 10th August 2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

My first impression is that this blade is javanese, mounted in a Sumatran dress. Not very unusual because javanese blades where highly appreciated and brought to Sumatra.

This well may be Henk, but it is also my understanding that the Sumatran and Javanese courts where somewhat linked for a time and that the form of Sumatran pieces where styled after the Javanese during this period. I'd have to do some research to come up with the specifics of the whens and whys. I would also like to see the full length of the blade, but i wouldn't rule out that it may truly have a Sumatran origin.

A. G. Maisey · 10th August 2006, 11:45 PM

It is a bit difficult to be too definite about blade origin when all that can seen is a part of the sorsoran, and the blade is being viewed wrong way around. A full length photo, with the gandik to the left of the photo would assist with identifacation.
That said, my feeling at the moment is that we are not looking at a Javanese blade, but I cannot yet see enough to be any more definite.

Rick · 11th August 2006, 12:05 AM

This one seems similar to the example shown .
I have a feeling it is Sumatran .

David · 11th August 2006, 12:56 AM

If i had you say i don't think i would vote for Javanese origins on this keris. I think it is probably Sumatran. This blade seems to have Bugis influences to me.

Rick · 11th August 2006, 01:24 AM

If we're going to discuss pamor Raja Gundala I think that David is wise to suggest merging these threads to avoid confusion .

As I have said before unless the image presented is fairly unmistakable then personally I feel it is a matter left up to the individual .

As for the dapur of the keris Zack has presented; I must reverse myself and say it appears Sumatran from what little I can see; the contrast in the pamor was my original downfall .

Come in Zack; we need more visual input; I cannot make out anything concrete to my eyes in the pamor you have shown.

Zack_antik · 11th August 2006, 02:37 AM

Thank you all.. for the reply. Here i include more photos for your viewing. I'm a bit confused now as what i've been told that the keris is of Bugis origin, but not Sumatra or Javanese.

Alam Shah · 11th August 2006, 02:40 AM

The 1st blade looks like a bugis-influenced blade, probably a Straits piece.

Rick, yours although looks similar, but not the same.

Metal composition is different and there are other subtle differences, as well.

(BluErf could fill-in for the subtle differences...

).

Rick · 11th August 2006, 02:49 AM

Thank you for the input Alam Shah; could you elaborate a bit on both pieces and their differences ?

I can see the difference in the contrast of the pamors .
Could you possibly offer an opinion of the origin of each one ?

Is there any signifigance to the open space between the gonjo and the blade in the greneng area on these two keris .

Sorry to plague you with so many questions but my curiousity burns .

Rick · 11th August 2006, 03:05 PM

I can see; after some coaching, a skull like head with a swollen cranium and possibly a body below dressed in robes on Zack's sorsoran .

David · 11th August 2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The 1st blade looks like a bugis-influenced blade, probably a Straits piece.

Rick, yours although looks similar, but not the same.

Metal composition is different and there are other subtle differences, as well.

(BluErf could fill-in for the subtle differences...

).

Yep, now that we see the whole blade i will more definitely commit to say Bugis influenced, not from Jawa, but i will leave it to our more peninsula oriented friends (sorry, i am not sure how better to say that, but you know who you are

) to pinpoint exactly where it is from. Since the Bugis migrated abouut quite a bit and brought their keris making influences with them, i personally find it hard to ID orgins on these blades, missing the subtlties that folks like Alam Shah and BluErf seem to be able to pick out so well.
Nicely dressed BTW, beautiful patina .

I also love that display stand Zack. Did you purchase it or make it yourself? I am often stumped on how to display my Bugis keris since they don't really fit well in Javanese and Balinese holders. That one looks great.

Zack_antik · 12th August 2006, 01:37 PM

Thanks David,
For your input and appraisal on my Keris, for the Keris stand i bought it from Malay Art Gallery in Singapore.

11th August 2006, 12:05 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Similar ? This one seems similar to the example shown . I have a feeling it is Sumatran . Attached Images

11th August 2006, 12:56 AM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	If i had you say i don't think i would vote for Javanese origins on this keris. I think it is probably Sumatran. This blade seems to have Bugis influences to me. Last edited by David; 11th August 2006 at 01:07 AM.

11th August 2006, 01:24 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Merging Threads If we're going to discuss pamor Raja Gundala I think that David is wise to suggest merging these threads to avoid confusion . As I have said before unless the image presented is fairly unmistakable then personally I feel it is a matter left up to the individual . As for the dapur of the keris Zack has presented; I must reverse myself and say it appears Sumatran from what little I can see; the contrast in the pamor was my original downfall . Come in Zack; we need more visual input; I cannot make out anything concrete to my eyes in the pamor you have shown. Last edited by Rick; 11th August 2006 at 01:42 AM.

11th August 2006, 02:37 AM	#6
Zack_antik Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Thank you all.. for the reply. Here i include more photos for your viewing. I'm a bit confused now as what i've been told that the keris is of Bugis origin, but not Sumatra or Javanese. Attached Images

11th August 2006, 02:40 AM	#7
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	comparison... The 1st blade looks like a bugis-influenced blade, probably a Straits piece. Rick, yours although looks similar, but not the same. Metal composition is different and there are other subtle differences, as well. (BluErf could fill-in for the subtle differences... ). Last edited by Alam Shah; 11th August 2006 at 03:18 AM. Reason: added info ?

10th August 2006, 11:45 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,082	It is a bit difficult to be too definite about blade origin when all that can seen is a part of the sorsoran, and the blade is being viewed wrong way around. A full length photo, with the gandik to the left of the photo would assist with identifacation. That said, my feeling at the moment is that we are not looking at a Javanese blade, but I cannot yet see enough to be any more definite.

11th August 2006, 02:49 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Thank you for the input Alam Shah; could you elaborate a bit on both pieces and their differences ? I can see the difference in the contrast of the pamors . Could you possibly offer an opinion of the origin of each one ? Is there any signifigance to the open space between the gonjo and the blade in the greneng area on these two keris . Sorry to plague you with so many questions but my curiousity burns .

11th August 2006, 03:05 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	I can see; after some coaching, a skull like head with a swollen cranium and possibly a body below dressed in robes on Zack's sorsoran .

12th August 2006, 01:37 PM	#11
Zack_antik Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Thanks David, For your input and appraisal on my Keris, for the Keris stand i bought it from Malay Art Gallery in Singapore.