Help please ,any info?

aspalathos · 14th November 2025, 10:30 AM

A little rusty, the wood is cracked, the other part of the wood is in the scabbard. Does anyone know anything more ,how old can it be ?

A. G. Maisey · 14th November 2025, 08:43 PM

This is a Javanese keris blade, the form (dhapur) appears to be pandowo cinarita, the pamor motif is wos (or beras) wutah. In respect of age, my estimate would be 19th century. In the majority of cases it is not possible to place a reasonably accurate age onto a keris blade. It is probably classifiable as a Mataram style blade, which refers to the area of Central Jawa where it was probably made, but that Mataram era covers a few hundred years.

The scabbard is a Jogjakarta form, I cannot see sufficient detail of the hilt to comment.

aspalathos · 16th November 2025, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspalathos

A little rusty, the wood is cracked, the other part of the wood is in the scabbard. Does anyone know anything more ,how old can it be ?

Hi tnx for repky,here some photos

A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 03:11 AM

I thought that somebody else might have jumped onto this hilt question before now, but it is still hanging there, so here is my opinion.

It is an opinion only, because this form of hilt has many variations on the same base theme, & those variations cover the North coast of Jawa, East Jawa, & Madura (which is actually a part of East Jawa.

In East Jawa we can refer to it as "Putra Satu", also "Janggelan".

Along the North Coast it might get "Raksasa" or "Yaksha".

In Madura it can be given as "Janggelan" or "Durga" or "Balu Mekabun".

There are other names that might be used, but since we do not know precisely where it might have been originally carved & worn, the above options are sufficient, I think.

There is a half hint as to origin, & that is that the discoloured part of the hilt at its base was once covered by selut --- a sort ferrule --- probably of silver, & this fitting was quite popular in the Cirebon, Tegal & Pekalongan areas of the North Coast.

Here, this hilt has been mated to a Jogjakarta wrongko (scabbard), so it has probably been mated thus by a collector, rather than a user in place of origin.

The material appears to be bone, or perhaps de-natured antler, the carving appears to be good middle quality, I'm guessing age at around 1900, certainly pre-WWII.

Quite a nice hilt, I'd be inclined to separate it from the keris and mount it onto a display stand, & get Jogjakarta planar hilt for the keris.

Sajen · Yesterday, 04:01 PM

Yes agreed, put it on a stand and not on this keris! I would call it Putra Satu. Collectors seem to agree on this name, if it's correct or not!

A. G. Maisey · Yesterday, 08:12 PM

Detlef, collectors agree on a lot of things, & they disagree on a lot of things.

The people who make and use these things mostly disagree with many, if not most of the collectors.

For many years people from outside SE Asian societies have been flim-flamed and fed incorrect information by the people living inside those societies.

I myself do not always agree with some of the things I might say in public, however, in the case of the hilt I have commented upon here, I myself have no firm opinion in respect of the name.

Why?

Because I do not know where it was made or used.

The name options I provided came from books, books written by both Indonesian collectors & collectors from outside Indonesian societies.

The opinions I have at the moment all depend upon where it was made & used.

Even if I knew where it was made & used, the name that I firmed up on might be incorrect according to the makers & users.

The idea of "correctness" is a variable one.

Sajen · Yesterday, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Detlef, collectors agree on a lot of things, & they disagree on a lot of things.

The people who make and use these things mostly disagree with many, if not most of the collectors.

For many years people from outside SE Asian societies have been flim-flamed and fed incorrect information by the people living inside those societies.

I myself do not always agree with some of the things I might say in public, however, in the case of the hilt I have commented upon here, I myself have no firm opinion in respect of the name.

Why?

Because I do not know where it was made or used.

The name options I provided came from books, books written by both Indonesian collectors & collectors from outside Indonesian societies.

The opinions I have at the moment all depend upon where it was made & used.

Even if I knew where it was made & used, the name that I firmed up on might be incorrect according to the makers & users.

The idea of "correctness" is a variable one.

Hello Alan,

In general I am in line with you. What I meant was, when you call the hilt in question "Putra Satu" most collectors will know which sort of hilt is meant. At least the name game is not so important for me.

Regards,
Detlef

A. G. Maisey · Today, 02:43 AM

Understood Detlef.

With collecting, & I'm not just talking about the sort of things that we discuss here, I'm talking about all sorts of collectables, the people who actually collect often have very little knowledge or understanding of the items that they do collect, so they construct their own terms, & sometimes their own language when they talk about these things.

With the users in place of origin, the names that they use often differ from the names used by collectors.

With the makers, their names can differ from the users and from the collectors.

So just exactly what is "correct"?

From my perspective I'm more or less happy with any name that gets the message across.

But if we are trying to impart some understanding to somebody who has not yet any great depth of understanding, then I feel that perhaps it is not a bad idea to give a little more than is really necessary. If we move past the generic "ukiran" or "pegangan" or even "jejeran" then maybe we need to try to be a wee bit definitive.

Certainly, that "Putra Satu" is well recognised, but it is in fact a corruption of "Potre Sadu", & it is a Madura form & it needs a face, that face will be the face of a demon, in Madura the similar form but lacking a face becomes Balu Mekabun.

Potre Sadu was in fact Joko Tole's wife, who was both blind & ugly. So using Podre Sadu to prevent evil forces from entering into one's keris seems to me to be a pretty good idea

Some people believe that this "Putra Satu" name is in fact an invention of collectors, not a true name, because "Putra Satu" is Bahasa Indonesia, not Madurese, not Javanese, & it really makes no sense:- putra -- son, satu -- one. Is that protection against the forces of evil? Or is it just something that was misheard, misunderstood and became graven in stone.

14th November 2025, 10:30 AM	#1
aspalathos Member Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 109	Help please ,any info? A little rusty, the wood is cracked, the other part of the wood is in the scabbard. Does anyone know anything more ,how old can it be ? Attached Images

14th November 2025, 08:43 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,101	This is a Javanese keris blade, the form (dhapur) appears to be pandowo cinarita, the pamor motif is wos (or beras) wutah. In respect of age, my estimate would be 19th century. In the majority of cases it is not possible to place a reasonably accurate age onto a keris blade. It is probably classifiable as a Mataram style blade, which refers to the area of Central Jawa where it was probably made, but that Mataram era covers a few hundred years. The scabbard is a Jogjakarta form, I cannot see sufficient detail of the hilt to comment.

Yesterday, 03:11 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,101	I thought that somebody else might have jumped onto this hilt question before now, but it is still hanging there, so here is my opinion. It is an opinion only, because this form of hilt has many variations on the same base theme, & those variations cover the North coast of Jawa, East Jawa, & Madura (which is actually a part of East Jawa. In East Jawa we can refer to it as "Putra Satu", also "Janggelan". Along the North Coast it might get "Raksasa" or "Yaksha". In Madura it can be given as "Janggelan" or "Durga" or "Balu Mekabun". There are other names that might be used, but since we do not know precisely where it might have been originally carved & worn, the above options are sufficient, I think. There is a half hint as to origin, & that is that the discoloured part of the hilt at its base was once covered by selut --- a sort ferrule --- probably of silver, & this fitting was quite popular in the Cirebon, Tegal & Pekalongan areas of the North Coast. Here, this hilt has been mated to a Jogjakarta wrongko (scabbard), so it has probably been mated thus by a collector, rather than a user in place of origin. The material appears to be bone, or perhaps de-natured antler, the carving appears to be good middle quality, I'm guessing age at around 1900, certainly pre-WWII. Quite a nice hilt, I'd be inclined to separate it from the keris and mount it onto a display stand, & get Jogjakarta planar hilt for the keris.

Yesterday, 04:01 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,450	Yes agreed, put it on a stand and not on this keris! I would call it Putra Satu. Collectors seem to agree on this name, if it's correct or not!

Yesterday, 08:12 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,101	Detlef, collectors agree on a lot of things, & they disagree on a lot of things. The people who make and use these things mostly disagree with many, if not most of the collectors. For many years people from outside SE Asian societies have been flim-flamed and fed incorrect information by the people living inside those societies. I myself do not always agree with some of the things I might say in public, however, in the case of the hilt I have commented upon here, I myself have no firm opinion in respect of the name. Why? Because I do not know where it was made or used. The name options I provided came from books, books written by both Indonesian collectors & collectors from outside Indonesian societies. The opinions I have at the moment all depend upon where it was made & used. Even if I knew where it was made & used, the name that I firmed up on might be incorrect according to the makers & users. The idea of "correctness" is a variable one.

Today, 02:43 AM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,101	Understood Detlef. With collecting, & I'm not just talking about the sort of things that we discuss here, I'm talking about all sorts of collectables, the people who actually collect often have very little knowledge or understanding of the items that they do collect, so they construct their own terms, & sometimes their own language when they talk about these things. With the users in place of origin, the names that they use often differ from the names used by collectors. With the makers, their names can differ from the users and from the collectors. So just exactly what is "correct"? From my perspective I'm more or less happy with any name that gets the message across. But if we are trying to impart some understanding to somebody who has not yet any great depth of understanding, then I feel that perhaps it is not a bad idea to give a little more than is really necessary. If we move past the generic "ukiran" or "pegangan" or even "jejeran" then maybe we need to try to be a wee bit definitive. Certainly, that "Putra Satu" is well recognised, but it is in fact a corruption of "Potre Sadu", & it is a Madura form & it needs a face, that face will be the face of a demon, in Madura the similar form but lacking a face becomes Balu Mekabun. Potre Sadu was in fact Joko Tole's wife, who was both blind & ugly. So using Podre Sadu to prevent evil forces from entering into one's keris seems to me to be a pretty good idea Some people believe that this "Putra Satu" name is in fact an invention of collectors, not a true name, because "Putra Satu" is Bahasa Indonesia, not Madurese, not Javanese, & it really makes no sense:- putra -- son, satu -- one. Is that protection against the forces of evil? Or is it just something that was misheard, misunderstood and became graven in stone.