Tanzanian swagger/fighting stick?

Tim Simmons · 27th July 2006, 07:32 AM

My stick is made of fairly heavy dense wood and oddly just too short to work as a walking stick. I am only 5' 8" so not tall. Sticks are important objects in Africa and stick fighting almost a continent wide sport. Another area where knowledge seems in short supply.

"Edit" The neck on this second stick looks rather too delicate to be a fighting stick. It is possible that sticks are made and carried as a shadow of former times.

spiral · 27th July 2006, 04:16 PM

Heres the article Tim, I Dont know how relevant it is.

Its from a pamphlet style book by Catherine Dike who apparently has written 4 other books on sticks & canes mainly in French.

Spiral

katana · 27th July 2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

"Edit" The neck on this second stick looks rather too delicate to be a fighting stick. It is possible that sticks are made and carried as a shadow of former times.

I'm inclined to agree, Tim.
Spiral what an interesting book....some of those sticks have lovely carving.

Tim Simmons · 27th July 2006, 07:43 PM

David, I am going to keep this short and greatly summarised so as not to get bogged down. Your stick is modern and from Nigeria and is based on a traditional Yoruba image. In old pieces the female is always naked except sometimes for a string of beads around the waist. The kneeling naked position is adopted when greeting the creator, I could provide names but would never really be 100% I was correct just now. The figure is mostly seen with her hands resting or appearing to lift her breasts which completes the gesture, which is rather quaint, do not laugh as this is seriously so. I have a modern staff that dissplays this, note the same neck on the figure. I also post some old items from Fagg, Pemberton, Holcombe Yoruba, Sculpture of west Africa. A mirror board and priests divination tapper. Short I know but pionts in the right direction.

katana · 27th July 2006, 10:13 PM

Thanks Tim,
very interesting info, I appreciate your explanation. I really should source litrature concerning African symbolism and iconography, it surely is a fascinating topic.

Freddy · 28th July 2006, 06:57 PM

Look what I found in the corner of my office : a stick !

I remember purchasing this one quite some time ago. I forgot about it. According to the seller it came from Africa. Could well be a stick from Rwanda, as can be seen from Spiral's article.

I wonder what the iconographic explanation of the grip of this piece is. After looking at it for some time, I can see the image of a person...? Or am I wrong ?

Anyway... the total length is 112,5 cm. At the bottom, a metal spike has been added (length : 24 cm) for sticking it into the ground.
For me, this stick is a bit too long to be an ordinary walking cane. I would rather call it a staff.

katana · 28th July 2006, 07:15 PM

Freddy,
do you think that there is a possibilty that this is one of a pair? I,m thinking that the spike would allow it to be driven into the ground easily. If you had two, one either side of an open fire you could have a cross piece ( a branch of a tree or pole) that fitted through the holes. You could then hang a cooking pot from it........ Interesting object....would obviously make a good defensive weapon.....could even use it to pick up litter

Many ethnic items seem to have many uses........wooden 'swiss army' knife with perhaps a number of functions...

Freddy · 28th July 2006, 07:32 PM

Would more be an 'African army knife', no ?

Here's another one which I showed acquired quite some time ago in a lot of African clubs. It came from ebay and the seller was convinced these were drum sticks (that's why I got them so cheap,

)

It's a club from the Gogo-tribe in Tansania. Here shown next to some 'ordinary' clubs.
The 'body' of this club is peculiar with the swelling. And I see a monkey's head when I look at the top part.

27th July 2006, 07:32 AM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	My stick is made of fairly heavy dense wood and oddly just too short to work as a walking stick. I am only 5' 8" so not tall. Sticks are important objects in Africa and stick fighting almost a continent wide sport. Another area where knowledge seems in short supply. "Edit" The neck on this second stick looks rather too delicate to be a fighting stick. It is possible that sticks are made and carried as a shadow of former times. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th July 2006 at 08:14 AM.

27th July 2006, 07:43 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	David, I am going to keep this short and greatly summarised so as not to get bogged down. Your stick is modern and from Nigeria and is based on a traditional Yoruba image. In old pieces the female is always naked except sometimes for a string of beads around the waist. The kneeling naked position is adopted when greeting the creator, I could provide names but would never really be 100% I was correct just now. The figure is mostly seen with her hands resting or appearing to lift her breasts which completes the gesture, which is rather quaint, do not laugh as this is seriously so. I have a modern staff that dissplays this, note the same neck on the figure. I also post some old items from Fagg, Pemberton, Holcombe Yoruba, Sculpture of west Africa. A mirror board and priests divination tapper. Short I know but pionts in the right direction. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 27th July 2006 at 07:54 PM.

27th July 2006, 04:16 PM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Heres the article Tim, I Dont know how relevant it is. Its from a pamphlet style book by Catherine Dike who apparently has written 4 other books on sticks & canes mainly in French. Spiral

27th July 2006, 10:13 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Thanks Tim, very interesting info, I appreciate your explanation. I really should source litrature concerning African symbolism and iconography, it surely is a fascinating topic.

28th July 2006, 06:57 PM	#6
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Look what I found in the corner of my office : a stick ! I remember purchasing this one quite some time ago. I forgot about it. According to the seller it came from Africa. Could well be a stick from Rwanda, as can be seen from Spiral's article. I wonder what the iconographic explanation of the grip of this piece is. After looking at it for some time, I can see the image of a person...? Or am I wrong ? Anyway... the total length is 112,5 cm. At the bottom, a metal spike has been added (length : 24 cm) for sticking it into the ground. For me, this stick is a bit too long to be an ordinary walking cane. I would rather call it a staff.

28th July 2006, 07:15 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Freddy, do you think that there is a possibilty that this is one of a pair? I,m thinking that the spike would allow it to be driven into the ground easily. If you had two, one either side of an open fire you could have a cross piece ( a branch of a tree or pole) that fitted through the holes. You could then hang a cooking pot from it........ Interesting object....would obviously make a good defensive weapon.....could even use it to pick up litter Many ethnic items seem to have many uses........wooden 'swiss army' knife with perhaps a number of functions...

28th July 2006, 07:32 PM	#8
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Would more be an 'African army knife', no ? Here's another one which I showed acquired quite some time ago in a lot of African clubs. It came from ebay and the seller was convinced these were drum sticks (that's why I got them so cheap, ) It's a club from the Gogo-tribe in Tansania. Here shown next to some 'ordinary' clubs. The 'body' of this club is peculiar with the swelling. And I see a monkey's head when I look at the top part.