strange sword

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

With respect to the hilt, I find it a little surprising that a smooth cylinder of turned wood has been used for the grip. This is not very practical because when such a grip is wet (as from blood or water) it becomes slippery and hard to hold. For this reason hilt surfaces are textured or wrapped in materials that give a firmer grip when wet. Also, a circular grip is the least stable in the hand and likely to twist while being used. Lastly is the small, nondescript pommel of ivory or bone, attached with a pin, that offers no clue to its ethnic origin. To me the hilt has some SE Asian/southern Chinese familiarity but I suspect its assembly had European influence also.

A handle wrapping could get lost over the years, special when it was from cloth.

[Bob A]

Is there any indication of a wrap having been in place on the hilt? Hord to judge from the photos above.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Bob A

Is there any indication of a wrap having been in place on the hilt? Hord to judge from the photos above.

I think that there could have been a wrapping but maybe it was lost long ago.

[Patterson25]

Hi Guys,

First thanks for your comments.
More details to help:
The hilt is made of metal, a tube covered by thick black lacquer.
The pommel is made of walrus ivory or mammoth teeth, and on top an old glass bead.
I posted this sword because it is a strange mix...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Patterson25

Hi Guys,

First thanks for your comments.
More details to help:
The hilt is made of metal, a tube covered by thick black lacquer.
The pommel is made of walrus ivory or mammoth teeth, and on top an old glass bead.
I posted this sword because it is a strange mix...

Can you provide some close-ups from the hilt and from the pommel please?

Regards,
Detlef

[francantolin]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Can you provide some close-ups from the hilt and from the pommel please?

Regards,
Detlef

Oohh yes, real own pictures please 🙂👍👍

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Patterson25

Hi Guys,

First thanks for your comments.
More details to help:
The hilt is made of metal, a tube covered by thick black lacquer.
The pommel is made of walrus ivory or mammoth teeth, and on top an old glass bead.
I posted this sword because it is a strange mix...

Patterson25, this is important information that was omitted earlier. If you are looking for an answer for this unusual sword, then it helps to have all the data. Additional information that would be useful is the length of the hilt and blade, and the blade width and thickness at the hilt and tip. Also, does the blade taper in thickness from ricasso to tip.

The presence of a cylindrical metal grip is significant. Is this metal iron (magnetic) or non-ferrous (non-magnetic)? The covering with "lacquer" implies the use of a resin that may have been "tacky" originally and perhaps aided grip oif the hilt. It may also have added some protection of the hilt from wear and tear or other damage. The use of black resin was common in parts of mainland SE Asia, perhaps also to improve the grip or conceal any reflections from the hilt materials. It was widely used on wooden scabbards as well.

I had two Vietnamese swords that were heavily endowed with black resin over the grip, and similar use of resin on some Thai, Lao, and Cambodian swords. All of these examples had an underlying wrap (rattan strips, metal wire, occasionally brass fittings) over a wooden core.

Resin is also seen on the grips of some NW Indian groups, and the Naga are a notable group with resin on the grip of their traditional dao. These grips tend to have a hard, smooth, and often shiny appearance.

As far as the material of the pommel, if this is marine ivory then that might favor an origin close to the coast rather than the landlocked areas of NE India, Bhutan, and Tibet. Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between elephant ivory and marine ivory. A fossilized mammoth tooth seems unlikely..

[SidJ]

This came up at auction in the UK recently. I had doubts about it myself as I could not place it so stayed away

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by SidJ

I had doubts about it myself as I could not place it so stayed away

Hi Sid,

Aren't the oddballs not more interesting than the textbook examples? For me for sure!

Regards,
Detlef

[Ian]

Originally Posted by SidJ

This came up at auction in the UK recently. I had doubts about it myself as I could not place it so stayed away

Hi Sid and Tim. I'm not sure we should jump to this item being an attempt to be something it's not or to deceive a prospective buyer. It does appear to be an "odd ball," as Detlef notes. The guard, at least, appears to have been mated to the blade for a long time judging from the junction of the guard with the blade. The hilt could be more recent, and if the pommel is a synthetic material then that raises a question about the age of the grip as well.

Direct inspection means a great deal when trying to ascertain age and authenticity, and if you had doubts about this one from such an inspection then that is important information too.