Unknown Spanish colonial or Mexican Basket Hilted sabre

[midelburgo]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

I finally received the copy of "Treasures of the Caribbean" by Rodney Hilton Brown (2023) and it is an intriguing compendium of various stories and circumstances in Caribbean history often with cited references .Unfortunately this entry showing what appears to be the same pattern in hilt and blade, does not cite such reference, (p.279).
The blade with same fullering carries the Spanish motto, suggesting the swords were apparently inscribed independently.
While the date/period indicates c. 1720, this is incorrect as this is a Napoleonic period sword.

I believe it is the same sword, but they say the motto is different, a more catchy one. Artistic license or whatever.

[Tim Simmons]

Just an off the cuff suggestion, the use of silver for the guard might indicate an Andean origin like Boliva with the huge silver mine.

[Jim McDougall]

With this particular hilt style, which indeed seems in accord with Napoleonic French baroque styling so favored by the Mexican government in military fashion, it is tempting to presume these two examples came from the same shop. Since Mexico City was the viceroyalty center of New Spain, possibly in or around there would seem likely. Also Oaxaca became a prevalent sword making center for military officers swords through the 19th century well into 20th, and as far as I know prevails today in edged items.

Good note on the silver used in these hilts, and there were were multiple sources for silver through New Spain of which Potosi in Bolivia was most significant and well known in 16thc. The silver from there was a notable part of the trade in Spanish networks, and by the 18th c. notable deposits in Mexico became sources for use there, San Luis Potosi (named for the Andean location) as well as Taxco became prevalent sources.

Most Mexican swords for officers were of course of the 19th into early 20th century with the Republic of Mexico, and of European styling. I am not aware of any of these being attributed regionally, by state etc. unless this was seen in a blade inscription.

[Magey_McMage]

Apologies for the late update, life keeps getting in the way of things. I could not find the rifle rests I usually use for photography so these are mostly top down. I will not speculate on too much, as almost all of it would be unsubstantiated but I am curious if the hilt is not actual silver but the German Silver/Nickel Silver used by the French. I have taken some comparison photo with this sword next to a standard 1882 and also a non regulation 1855 model of Superior Officer's Sabre with the earlier blade fullers.

Of course like I mentioned earlier, the acorn pommel was threaded. A gentle tug and the blade came out of the hilt quite easily. A bit of steel wool and oil on the tang if only to clean some rust and there is a hallmark on both sides as well.

Right now all I can offer are the photos with no substantive evidence. It appears in my eyes very similar in weighting and feel-in-hand to my French superior officers sabres and others of the same era but I admit I have not handled many Spanish or Mexican swords. Hopefully this will provide more information.

Please bear with me as my replies need approval before posting and I have a few posts worth of photos to upload, sorry!

[Magey_McMage]

Photos part 2:

[midelburgo]

A blade with SOLIGE written on the channel, and the (fake) Toledo mark on the ricasso.

Check post#8 in this thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oledo+Solingen

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by midelburgo

A blade with SOLIGE written on the channel, and the (fake) Toledo mark on the ricasso.

Check post#8 in this thread:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oledo+Solingen

Great entry!!! reminds me how long we've been on these topics on Spanish swords here! Over two decades now!
Well noted, the dual fullers clearly a Solingen offering in 18th c. and with that keeping in mind the numbers of Solingen smiths who went to Klingenthal in France.