An iron hand grenade ca 1700

M ELEY · 7th September 2025, 09:54 PM

So, how does one differenciate between a 'grenade' and a mortar shell? Bother were made of iron, were spherical and had a plug of wood in the hole to keep the powder from running out. The differences betwen them starts with the sizes. Although there were some smller mortar rounds of 4" diameter, most were much larger specimens, many so heavy that they had cast 'hangles' near the powder hole for lifting with a pulley or lever. Mortar shells had to be nearly perfectly round, whereas grenades didn't need to be, as they were typically not fired out of a smooth bore coehorn or cannon. A lop-sided mortar shell could easily get stuck in the barrel and explode, thus they were very smooth. Finally, many examples of grenades would have either a concave indentation (called a dimple) or a slightly rounded bump that allowed the grenade to be set down and not roll away! On the deck of of ship, this was most important! The examples brought up from many shipwrecks have this interesting feature. Mine has a small bump to the base that keeps it sitting upright. As you can see from the pics that my example is very irregular and about the size of a softball or grapefruit. I carved a wood plug for mine based on the existing examples I've seen.

adrian · 7th September 2025, 10:57 PM

It is also the size, weight and has smallish hole diameter of many shot-put. These had molten lead poured in to bring them to the correct weight and the hole was then plugged with wood or lead - modern shotput having a screw-plug. Shotput today, unfortunately, generally outnumber surviving shells/grenades making positive identification, without reasonable provenance, such as the subject object has, quite challenging.

Below is a stack I have on display alongside my gunnade. These were acquired from a scrap merchant who had bought them from a local school that closed. These have a similar 'battered' look about them from decades of use. The holes on these particular examples are smaller than the holes I have seen on a number of other shotput.

M ELEY · Yesterday, 12:32 AM

Hello Adrian and thanks for the information. Usually, I get all depressed and automatically assume I've made a mistake (as I have many times before), but on this one, I'm going to stick to my guns. The outer surface on this one is old, ragged and the patina is spot-on. the hole is actually rather large, about the size of an American penny. There is no signs of molten lead inside when I shine a light down the hole, it still has a lingering odor of gunpowder and it is mis-shapen and not round at all. The seller had much larger examples of mortar shot, many stamped with military arms, artillary markings, or had the molded 'handles' for lifting into the mortar. I knwo, though, that there are many look-alikes for all ordenance (shot-puts, mill balls, counter-weights, fence knobs, etc). Very nice carronade, BTW!!!

M ELEY · Yesterday, 12:33 AM

https://www.qaronline.org/blog/2018-...-month-grenade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenad..._(cropped).jpg

https://www.wessexarch.co.uk/news/na...c-hand-grenade

https://armsandarmour.co.uk/shop.php?code=24873

7th September 2025, 09:54 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,193	More pics and info- So, how does one differenciate between a 'grenade' and a mortar shell? Bother were made of iron, were spherical and had a plug of wood in the hole to keep the powder from running out. The differences betwen them starts with the sizes. Although there were some smller mortar rounds of 4" diameter, most were much larger specimens, many so heavy that they had cast 'hangles' near the powder hole for lifting with a pulley or lever. Mortar shells had to be nearly perfectly round, whereas grenades didn't need to be, as they were typically not fired out of a smooth bore coehorn or cannon. A lop-sided mortar shell could easily get stuck in the barrel and explode, thus they were very smooth. Finally, many examples of grenades would have either a concave indentation (called a dimple) or a slightly rounded bump that allowed the grenade to be set down and not roll away! On the deck of of ship, this was most important! The examples brought up from many shipwrecks have this interesting feature. Mine has a small bump to the base that keeps it sitting upright. As you can see from the pics that my example is very irregular and about the size of a softball or grapefruit. I carved a wood plug for mine based on the existing examples I've seen. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 7th September 2025 at 10:00 PM. Reason: pic issues!

7th September 2025, 10:57 PM	#2
adrian Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 135	It is also the size, weight and has smallish hole diameter of many shot-put. These had molten lead poured in to bring them to the correct weight and the hole was then plugged with wood or lead - modern shotput having a screw-plug. Shotput today, unfortunately, generally outnumber surviving shells/grenades making positive identification, without reasonable provenance, such as the subject object has, quite challenging. Below is a stack I have on display alongside my gunnade. These were acquired from a scrap merchant who had bought them from a local school that closed. These have a similar 'battered' look about them from decades of use. The holes on these particular examples are smaller than the holes I have seen on a number of other shotput. Attached Images

Yesterday, 12:33 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,193	A few references- https://www.qaronline.org/blog/2018-...-month-grenade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenad..._(cropped).jpg https://www.wessexarch.co.uk/news/na...c-hand-grenade https://armsandarmour.co.uk/shop.php?code=24873

Yesterday, 12:32 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,193	Hello Adrian and thanks for the information. Usually, I get all depressed and automatically assume I've made a mistake (as I have many times before), but on this one, I'm going to stick to my guns. The outer surface on this one is old, ragged and the patina is spot-on. the hole is actually rather large, about the size of an American penny. There is no signs of molten lead inside when I shine a light down the hole, it still has a lingering odor of gunpowder and it is mis-shapen and not round at all. The seller had much larger examples of mortar shot, many stamped with military arms, artillary markings, or had the molded 'handles' for lifting into the mortar. I knwo, though, that there are many look-alikes for all ordenance (shot-puts, mill balls, counter-weights, fence knobs, etc). Very nice carronade, BTW!!!