Karabela, any thoughts, which century, origin?

[serdar]

If someone has some clue, about origin and century, i would say ottoman, mounted in second half 18 century, with older blade from 17 century.

[Interested Party]

Sorry Serdar I can't help you other than to give this post a bump. I think this is an interesting item and I would like to know more about it. Would you say that the blade is European?

[kahnjar1]

I can not comment other than to say that the "eyelash" mark appears on sword blades found in many countries. I suspect that the origin of the mark is European, but others will know better. Examples are on Tulwar blades from India and blades from many North African regions and other countries.
The sword you have is very nice by the way.......Possibly Persian???
Stu

[serdar]

It is realy dificult to tell, that is a reason i posted it here, maybe someone saw similar example or know more.

Handle is dark horn very well made, crossguard is ottoman, from the end of 18 century maybe begining of 19 century, i have similar on some sabers, and older ones from 16-17 century are thiner in straight pieces, same but diferent.

Blade, the blade is a mistery to me, it has eylash marks, and blade is made very well, cutts perfectly, but shape and way of sharpening to me looks like indian or indo persian, it reminds me on that style but then again when i take it in the hands it feels european blade, fullers and shape, blade is older 17 century i would say.

It is very dificult to tell anything from the pictures.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by serdar

It is realy dificult to tell, that is a reason i posted it here, maybe someone saw similar example or know more.

Handle is dark horn very well made, crossguard is ottoman, from the end of 18 century maybe begining of 19 century, i have similar on some sabers, and older ones from 16-17 century are thiner in straight pieces, same but diferent.

Blade, the blade is a mistery to me, it has eylash marks, and blade is made very well, cutts perfectly, but shape and way of sharpening to me looks like indian or indo persian, it reminds me on that style but then again when i take it in the hands it feels european blade, fullers and shape, blade is older 17 century i would say.

It is very dificult to tell anything from the pictures.

Hard to say from the pictures, but the ricasso does indeed look like something you would find on a tulwar.

[serdar]

Persian?

I realy dont know, maybe it is, crossguard is ottoman but surely with persian influence, some palas, and karabelas i have, older examples have similar crossguards, and are taken as war trophies from atacking ottoman armies in Montenegro and Dalmatia from my ancestors, but blade to me looks indian maybe indo persian, maybe it is, fullers and back of the blade looks european, but generaly blade to me looks indo or indo persian.

Thing is swords becouse of the trade of the blades were mix and mix, i saw a lot of european blades on ottoman mountings, even kilij blades on tulwar handles, etc.
They are from period, but today people proclaime them like 19 century frankenswords.

I have a sword that was originaly old 16-17 century european saber, genoa most probably, but was taken in battle by ottomans and mounted in silver mounting in ottoman 17/18 style, and then taken by Montenegrins in a battle,and incrusted blade in gold with royal insignia.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by TVV

Hard to say from the pictures, but the ricasso does indeed look like something you would find on a tulwar.

Yes, sharpening is a problem to me, it looks more indian indo-persian than european, and width of the “meat” behind the edge should be more wide, i had steyer saber 17 century blade with almost same construction, but on that blade you clearly see it is a european blade, it had perfect balance and it could take very sharp edge.

But cant say anything for sure.

[serdar]

Blade on ricasso isnt blunt like indian ricasso, it looks like someone sharpened it many times and took away metal, but it is a strange angle of sharpening that reminds me of indian weapons.

[TVV]

The blade does not look Persian to me, but rather an Indian one based on the ricasso. As you have it in hand you are in a better position to judge.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by TVV

The blade does not look Persian to me, but rather an Indian one based on the ricasso. As you have it in hand you are in a better position to judge.

Yes more indian, i said indo persian becouse of some pulwar blades that i saw that were similar.
But i realy dont know, if i would need to bet on it, i would say indian before i would say european.

[serdar]

Pictures of ricasso.

[awdaniec666]

Serdar hates me anyway because I always bring him bad news. But the comment is intended for other interested people anyway.

The blade comes from an Indian tulwar, as has already been suspected. The hilt is atypical, too chunky for a typical karabela. However, the individual parts look age-appropriate. In the best case, this is a Turkish production made from old parts, in the other case a Frankensword.

Save your spiteful replies, Serdar. I only come here every few months to see what's new anyway.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by awdaniec666

Serdar hates me anyway because I always bring him bad news. But the comment is intended for other interested people anyway.

The blade comes from an Indian tulwar, as has already been suspected. The hilt is atypical, too chunky for a typical karabela. However, the individual parts look age-appropriate. In the best case, this is a Turkish production made from old parts, in the other case a Frankensword.

Save your spiteful replies, Serdar. I only come here every few months to see what's new anyway.

Awdaniec, why?
I wasnt one who was spitful on my polish saber post, for me that is over and past.
Can we be normal from now on?

I agree, as you saw up, i suspected it is indian indo-persian blade, i think it is 18/19 century made, i dont see signs of use, so i would say more 19 century, not used.
I dont think that it is newly put together, but after what i saw in past time, nothing is 100%.

But about hilt, one guy in my country, has a few examples of genuine 100% real polish karabelas whose origin is tracable so no tampering or faul business, and they also have a similar "chunky" hilts, not all but two does have similar hilts.