OK Corral and coach guns

urbanspaceman · 3rd July 2025, 09:31 AM

David! Shrewsbury was awash with weapons?
Why was that? You make it sound like it was the norm. Was it a dangerous place? More dangerous than Tyneside!? Nowhere except Sicily was more dangerous than Newcastle upon Tyne and we never had a plethora of gun-shops. We had two, both exclusively sporting and fowling stockists who would never deign to speak to curious youngsters.
Perhaps it was your nuclear affiliation prompted folk to be well armed. You've got four minutes... grab your gun and pass the ammo!

CutlassCollector · 3rd July 2025, 12:50 PM

The British Royal Mail while not as romantic as Well Fargo also carried official guards armed with two pistols and a blunderbuss. Sometimes with a spring loaded bayonet as the one from The Postal Museum shows.

Both pistols and blunderbuss were usually brass barrelled presumably because the guard was outside no matter the weather. They were stamped for the Mail around the circumference of the muzzle. Shown on a pistol here.

"Something I discovered recently that I thought I would open up for potential correction:
the trumpet like muzzle of a blunderbuss was not to spread the shot - a short barrel would do that - it was to facilitate re-loading while sitting on a moving coach."

Yes, I read some research from a ballistics expert sometime ago and he concluded that the shape of the muzzle, even those with the flattened cylinder shape, had little effect on the spread of shot. Make an explosion behind a load of lead balls and they all head off in a, mostly, straight line.
The flared muzzle was therefor good for facilitating reloading with a handful of balls in a coach or at sea where they were also often used. Another factor to consider was the intimidation of the huge muzzle. Useful perhaps if a quick reload not possible and letting off a warning shot was not a good tactic!

Another popular story about filling blunderbuss's with old nails and rocks is apparently also largely false - unless of course you are in dire circumstance and run out of ammo.
There is a real danger of scrap jamming in the barrel and blowing up the gun.

urbanspaceman · 3rd July 2025, 09:56 PM

I was threatened with a Lupara when attempting to elope with a Mafia princess from Catania/Sicily back in the '70s (1970s!!). It didn't have a trumpet muzzle but it was loaded with rock salt.

Funkmachine7 · 4th July 2025, 03:32 AM

The other flaw of loading a gun with random junk is that lack of consistent shot weight or aerodynamics.
A load of bird, buck or pistol balls is nicely repeatable.

Brass has the advantage of easyer to work and its more likey to bulge then it is split.

SwordLover79 · 6th July 2025, 06:15 PM

Here is an 18th Century Royal Navy boarding blunderbuss. I love the inscription on the mouth of the barrel.

urbanspaceman · 6th July 2025, 08:24 PM

Mr Eley... it's Mark isn't it?
That is a 5 pint story of a three month long adventure, but in a nutshell - yes, I got the girl out; married her in the UK then returned and was welcomed into the Family.
Couldn't get her to leave the island after that. Stayed 5 years then decamped to LA... alone! Neither of us married again after that and we are still good friends... by internet. BTW The true purpose of the trumpet muzzle was my post.

M ELEY · 6th July 2025, 11:00 PM

That is an incredible story, Keith! A true adventure! Glad you made it out in one piece. Also, thanks for that information and my apologies for not noting you as the source. These little nuances of information are what really fascinate me about the history and use of these items. Sorry ya' didn't end up with the girl, lad! (said in my best 'pirate voice'

)

Mark

CutlassCollector · 4th July 2025, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

I was threatened with a Lupara when attempting to elope with a Mafia princess from Catania/Sicily back in the '70s (1970s!!). It didn't have a trumpet muzzle but it was loaded with rock salt.

Hopefully you avoided that assault! Being peppered with that would have stung.

M ELEY · 5th July 2025, 03:55 PM

Wow! Just catching up with some past threads I've missed and this is an incredible one!

Jim, thank you for posting this. Unfortunately, with the exception of blunderbuss, most of this is 'out of my wheelhouse'!

Thank you, David, for clearing up the true purpose of the flared muzzle on blunderbuss, as I learned early on that the bell-shape didn't equate to a more scattered pattern of blast radius. It makes sense, especially in a maritime setting, as a quick load aboard a pitching ship with the enemy often just feet away would be most helpful!

Funkmachine7, welcome to the Forum and thanks for your input. Your point about brass being more malliable makes sense. Also noted was the use of bird/partridge shot in these hand cannons-

Hey Keith, did you end up with the girl??

3rd July 2025, 09:31 AM	#1
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 712	Shrewsbury David! Shrewsbury was awash with weapons? Why was that? You make it sound like it was the norm. Was it a dangerous place? More dangerous than Tyneside!? Nowhere except Sicily was more dangerous than Newcastle upon Tyne and we never had a plethora of gun-shops. We had two, both exclusively sporting and fowling stockists who would never deign to speak to curious youngsters. Perhaps it was your nuclear affiliation prompted folk to be well armed. You've got four minutes... grab your gun and pass the ammo!

3rd July 2025, 12:50 PM	#2
CutlassCollector Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Scotland Posts: 368	The British Royal Mail while not as romantic as Well Fargo also carried official guards armed with two pistols and a blunderbuss. Sometimes with a spring loaded bayonet as the one from The Postal Museum shows. Both pistols and blunderbuss were usually brass barrelled presumably because the guard was outside no matter the weather. They were stamped for the Mail around the circumference of the muzzle. Shown on a pistol here. "Something I discovered recently that I thought I would open up for potential correction: the trumpet like muzzle of a blunderbuss was not to spread the shot - a short barrel would do that - it was to facilitate re-loading while sitting on a moving coach." Yes, I read some research from a ballistics expert sometime ago and he concluded that the shape of the muzzle, even those with the flattened cylinder shape, had little effect on the spread of shot. Make an explosion behind a load of lead balls and they all head off in a, mostly, straight line. The flared muzzle was therefor good for facilitating reloading with a handful of balls in a coach or at sea where they were also often used. Another factor to consider was the intimidation of the huge muzzle. Useful perhaps if a quick reload not possible and letting off a warning shot was not a good tactic! Another popular story about filling blunderbuss's with old nails and rocks is apparently also largely false - unless of course you are in dire circumstance and run out of ammo. There is a real danger of scrap jamming in the barrel and blowing up the gun. Attached Images

3rd July 2025, 09:56 PM	#3
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 712	Lupara I was threatened with a Lupara when attempting to elope with a Mafia princess from Catania/Sicily back in the '70s (1970s!!). It didn't have a trumpet muzzle but it was loaded with rock salt.

6th July 2025, 06:15 PM	#5
SwordLover79 Member Join Date: Jun 2022 Location: San Diego Posts: 59	Here is an 18th Century Royal Navy boarding blunderbuss. I love the inscription on the mouth of the barrel. Attached Images

6th July 2025, 08:24 PM	#6
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 712	Cherchez la femme Mr Eley... it's Mark isn't it? That is a 5 pint story of a three month long adventure, but in a nutshell - yes, I got the girl out; married her in the UK then returned and was welcomed into the Family. Couldn't get her to leave the island after that. Stayed 5 years then decamped to LA... alone! Neither of us married again after that and we are still good friends... by internet. BTW The true purpose of the trumpet muzzle was my post.

4th July 2025, 03:32 AM	#4
Funkmachine7 Member Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 2	The other flaw of loading a gun with random junk is that lack of consistent shot weight or aerodynamics. A load of bird, buck or pistol balls is nicely repeatable. Brass has the advantage of easyer to work and its more likey to bulge then it is split.

6th July 2025, 11:00 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	That is an incredible story, Keith! A true adventure! Glad you made it out in one piece. Also, thanks for that information and my apologies for not noting you as the source. These little nuances of information are what really fascinate me about the history and use of these items. Sorry ya' didn't end up with the girl, lad! (said in my best 'pirate voice') Mark

5th July 2025, 03:55 PM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Wow! Just catching up with some past threads I've missed and this is an incredible one! Jim, thank you for posting this. Unfortunately, with the exception of blunderbuss, most of this is 'out of my wheelhouse'! Thank you, David, for clearing up the true purpose of the flared muzzle on blunderbuss, as I learned early on that the bell-shape didn't equate to a more scattered pattern of blast radius. It makes sense, especially in a maritime setting, as a quick load aboard a pitching ship with the enemy often just feet away would be most helpful! Funkmachine7, welcome to the Forum and thanks for your input. Your point about brass being more malliable makes sense. Also noted was the use of bird/partridge shot in these hand cannons- Hey Keith, did you end up with the girl??