Saif, Moroccan saif, sife, nimcha, nimsha

Jim McDougall · Yesterday, 04:55 PM

Maurice, perfect entry!!! and of course not at all 'interfering' !! The idea here is discussion not just of one example, but of the form in general to see and learn from the scope of examples shared.

As can be seen, while the 'nimcha' style hilt with its distinct quillon and guard system was widely used throughout the Arab world, and while some examples remain in remarkable condition, many had long working lives throughout the regions of North Africa.
In my view, examples like Yuri's and yours are most exciting, as they were indeed worn, and perhaps used over long periods, and often within various groups as they changed hands.

With colonial actions and intertribal warfare along with trade and many types of interaction through the 19th century, well into the 20th, these swords were not simply traditional fashion, they were worn to be used as required.
Evidence of this is seen with the bolster strap holding the hilt together on Maurice's example.
These hilts were indeed made of horn of some sort, but I'm sure it varied, and while rhino was of course much desired, it was not as readily available and expensive. Horn itself was durable and surely had certain values in the sense of the traditions and nuances of the culture itself.

Going to certain elements on these nimchas, as a form, I notice on the example shown by Maurice, at the forte there is a stamp which comprises what looks like a dentated arc (as seen on Genoan sickle marks) and a star.
This seems to be seen on certain Moroccan examples (as seen on my example attached) and is tempting to suggest it is some sort of 'state' mark of Morocco, but cannot say for sure.

In Morocco, according to Tirri (2003, p.19) it is noted there were numerous weapon making centers in Fez, Meknes, Marrakesh and Rabat where there were apparently favored designs for daggers. Also centers at Tetuan, Taroudent, Ras al Oeued and through Little Atlas there were centers for guns and assembly. Any of these might have been sources for established supply of arms which may have included these swords.

It is noted as well that there was extensive use of imported weapon components (which has been well established), and via the many trade routes, might have come in through any number of the entrepots receiving foreign blades.

This is the reason it is so hard to establish the regional classification of extant nimcha examples. The 'Barbary Coast' (the exonym previously used and derived from 'Berber') extended entirely across the North African littoral from Morocco to Libya. The 'Barbary Pirates' refer to these outlaw raiders who were active throughout roughly 15th c. well through 19th, but as with historic periods, there are no specific limits to exact times, any more than defining the age of piracy itself.

Often it seems surprising that full length swords would be used as a 'pirate' weapon, with shorter stout blades being expected for close quarters on deck fighting. Here I would note that typically, these 'pirates' would transport in their galleys, but raid ashore, thus the full length swords.

Pertinax · Yesterday, 06:25 PM

Hi Maurice!

A wonderful nimcha who has "seen a lot", it's a pity that she can't tell about it herself.

Please indicate the sizes.

Respectfully,
Yuri

Maurice · Today, 02:00 PM

Hello Jim,

Many thanks for the extensive explanation.
It is absolutely fascinating, to learn more about the history of these impressive swords.

It looks like there was a change in blades in the past. The blade shape of Yuri and mine, seem to be from the early 1800's and latter?
According a friendcollector, the earlier blades have a more 'classic' pirate shape of blade, with a widening tip (like the ones from Michiel de Ruyter en Tromp in the Amsterdam Rijksmuseum collection, 17th century).

Kind regards,
Maurice

Maurice · Today, 02:06 PM

Hi Yuri,

About the measurements:

Total length 955 mm, blade length (bolster excluded) 800 mm, width at guard 28 mm, thickness of the blades spine at guard 7 mm, weight 860 g.

Kind regards,
Maurice

Pertinax · Today, 04:25 PM

Thank you Maurice!

Our nimchis have similar characteristics, but yours is a bit longer and more massive.

I would like to raise the question of the blade's origin once again.
From the very beginning, I assumed from the photo that the blade was of Maghreb origin due to the abundance of stamps on it.

When I received it, it seemed to me that the blade was stamped, not hand-forged.

Was it possible to stamp these stamps on a finished European blade? I do not have an answer to this question, my knowledge in this area is limited.

I ask for help from forum participants on this issue.

Respectfully,
Yuri

Yesterday, 04:55 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,188	Maurice, perfect entry!!! and of course not at all 'interfering' !! The idea here is discussion not just of one example, but of the form in general to see and learn from the scope of examples shared. As can be seen, while the 'nimcha' style hilt with its distinct quillon and guard system was widely used throughout the Arab world, and while some examples remain in remarkable condition, many had long working lives throughout the regions of North Africa. In my view, examples like Yuri's and yours are most exciting, as they were indeed worn, and perhaps used over long periods, and often within various groups as they changed hands. With colonial actions and intertribal warfare along with trade and many types of interaction through the 19th century, well into the 20th, these swords were not simply traditional fashion, they were worn to be used as required. Evidence of this is seen with the bolster strap holding the hilt together on Maurice's example. These hilts were indeed made of horn of some sort, but I'm sure it varied, and while rhino was of course much desired, it was not as readily available and expensive. Horn itself was durable and surely had certain values in the sense of the traditions and nuances of the culture itself. Going to certain elements on these nimchas, as a form, I notice on the example shown by Maurice, at the forte there is a stamp which comprises what looks like a dentated arc (as seen on Genoan sickle marks) and a star. This seems to be seen on certain Moroccan examples (as seen on my example attached) and is tempting to suggest it is some sort of 'state' mark of Morocco, but cannot say for sure. In Morocco, according to Tirri (2003, p.19) it is noted there were numerous weapon making centers in Fez, Meknes, Marrakesh and Rabat where there were apparently favored designs for daggers. Also centers at Tetuan, Taroudent, Ras al Oeued and through Little Atlas there were centers for guns and assembly. Any of these might have been sources for established supply of arms which may have included these swords. It is noted as well that there was extensive use of imported weapon components (which has been well established), and via the many trade routes, might have come in through any number of the entrepots receiving foreign blades. This is the reason it is so hard to establish the regional classification of extant nimcha examples. The 'Barbary Coast' (the exonym previously used and derived from 'Berber') extended entirely across the North African littoral from Morocco to Libya. The 'Barbary Pirates' refer to these outlaw raiders who were active throughout roughly 15th c. well through 19th, but as with historic periods, there are no specific limits to exact times, any more than defining the age of piracy itself. Often it seems surprising that full length swords would be used as a 'pirate' weapon, with shorter stout blades being expected for close quarters on deck fighting. Here I would note that typically, these 'pirates' would transport in their galleys, but raid ashore, thus the full length swords. Attached Images

Yesterday, 06:25 PM	#2
Pertinax Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: City by the Black Sea Posts: 219	Hi Maurice! A wonderful nimcha who has "seen a lot", it's a pity that she can't tell about it herself. Please indicate the sizes. Respectfully, Yuri

Today, 02:00 PM	#3
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Hello Jim, Many thanks for the extensive explanation. It is absolutely fascinating, to learn more about the history of these impressive swords. It looks like there was a change in blades in the past. The blade shape of Yuri and mine, seem to be from the early 1800's and latter? According a friendcollector, the earlier blades have a more 'classic' pirate shape of blade, with a widening tip (like the ones from Michiel de Ruyter en Tromp in the Amsterdam Rijksmuseum collection, 17th century). Kind regards, Maurice

Today, 02:06 PM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Hi Yuri, About the measurements: Total length 955 mm, blade length (bolster excluded) 800 mm, width at guard 28 mm, thickness of the blades spine at guard 7 mm, weight 860 g. Kind regards, Maurice

Today, 04:25 PM	#5
Pertinax Member Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: City by the Black Sea Posts: 219	Thank you Maurice! Our nimchis have similar characteristics, but yours is a bit longer and more massive. I would like to raise the question of the blade's origin once again. From the very beginning, I assumed from the photo that the blade was of Maghreb origin due to the abundance of stamps on it. When I received it, it seemed to me that the blade was stamped, not hand-forged. Was it possible to stamp these stamps on a finished European blade? I do not have an answer to this question, my knowledge in this area is limited. I ask for help from forum participants on this issue. Respectfully, Yuri