Spanish Dagger comments please

Chris Evans · 20th July 2006, 08:33 AM

Hi Marcus,

Not2sharp has summed it up pretty neatly. It is a dagger in the Albacete pattern, but its date of manufacture is a puzzle. If the inserts are indeed synthetic, as you suspect, (the handle looks too white to be bone) then that would date is as post WWI and daggers such as your were still being manufactured as late as 1960 for the tourist trade. I also find that "1870" highly suspect, and by way of comment can add that the practice of falsifying dates of manufacture as well as brands was not uncommon amongst Spanish cutlers. The all too ubiquitous "Toledo" can be found in any number of junk Spanish navajas, knives and swords, being a generic brand intended to beguile tourists, trading on the justly famous reputation of the sword blades manufactured in that city before the 20th cntry.

I could not identify the logo-brand from my books

Is the blade hardened?

Cheers
Chris

Marcus · 20th July 2006, 07:15 PM

Chris,
As far as I can tell it is good steel. It has a nice sharp edge. However, I think Julio himself questioned the date. I can certainly believe that the stampings were added later to try to create a history for the piece. Anyway, when I get back to the states I will show it to my blacksmith friend and let you know what he says.
Marcus

not2sharp · 20th July 2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Chris,
As far as I can tell it is good steel. It has a nice sharp edge. However, I think Julio himself questioned the date. I can certainly believe that the stampings were added later to try to create a history for the piece. Anyway, when I get back to the states I will show it to my blacksmith friend and let you know what he says.
Marcus

Marcus,

There is a real one for sale at

Tienda:
Av. Paluzie, 12
17800 Olot (Girona) SPAIN
Tel.: (+34) 972 26 13 58

It is on their website here:
http://www.infobase.net/sala/index3.html

If you are still in the neighborhood; stop by and they will be able to help you identify your knife.

n2s

Marcus · 20th July 2006, 10:28 PM

That is a really beautiful piece. However, what I bought is also pretty nice for only 85 euros (10% the price). In any case, it was certainly the nicest affordable piece I saw in Toledo. I only buy big ticket items when I can really afford the train fare.
Marcus

Chris Evans · 21st July 2006, 02:38 AM

Hi Not2sharp,

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

Marcus,

There is a real one for sale at

Tienda:
Av. Paluzie, 12
17800 Olot (Girona) SPAIN
Tel.: (+34) 972 26 13 58

It is on their website here:
http://www.infobase.net/sala/index3.html

If you are still in the neighborhood; stop by and they will be able to help you identify your knife.

n2s

I just would like to give them an endorsement - They are a real nice outfit. I had dealings with them over the years. Their prices are very reasonable and the description of the goods accurate. What is more, the owner speaks and writes English fluently. Now if I could only afford one of those magnificent rapiers......

Cheers
Chris

carlos · 22nd July 2006, 10:21 AM

I THINK IS A MODERN DAGGER, I HAVE ONE LIKE THIS, BUT WITHOUT MARKS, IT´S THE SAME. AND THE PRICE IS TOO LOW , IN TOLEDO AN AUTENTIC ALBACETE DAGGER COST MORE OF 300 EUROS. IT´S ONLY MY OPINION.
THANKS
CARLOS

Marcus · 23rd July 2006, 07:58 AM

Does anyone know what the purpose was for the cut-outs in the blades of these daggers?
Marcus

not2sharp · 23rd July 2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Does anyone know what the purpose was for the cut-outs in the blades of these daggers?
Marcus

The shifty eyed ones will suggest that the cutout would be coated with poison, or used to inject air (promote gangerine) into the wound, or perhaps there to ease the extraction of the knife. None of which make much sense since someone locked into that level of combat would very much like to see his opponent die immediately rather then within hours, days, or weeks from some desease or toxin. Most likely they were 1) a decorative device, and 2) used by the bladesmith to ease the manufacture of the knife. The cutouts do not appear on all Abacete daggers.

n2s

Chris Evans · 21st July 2006, 02:34 AM

Hi Marcus,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus

Chris,
As far as I can tell it is good steel. It has a nice sharp edge. However, I think Julio himself questioned the date. I can certainly believe that the stampings were added later to try to create a history for the piece. Anyway, when I get back to the states I will show it to my blacksmith friend and let you know what he says.
Marcus

The reason I asked is because it is very hard to stamp a hardened blade, at least to the depth of that "1870".

Be that as it may, you did not do badly at all for the price you paid because it is obviously handmade and E85 is small change in Spain for anything.

Cheers
Chris

20th July 2006, 07:15 PM	#2
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Is the blade hardened? Chris, As far as I can tell it is good steel. It has a nice sharp edge. However, I think Julio himself questioned the date. I can certainly believe that the stampings were added later to try to create a history for the piece. Anyway, when I get back to the states I will show it to my blacksmith friend and let you know what he says. Marcus

20th July 2006, 10:28 PM	#4
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	what fits in the suitcase (and budget) That is a really beautiful piece. However, what I bought is also pretty nice for only 85 euros (10% the price). In any case, it was certainly the nicest affordable piece I saw in Toledo. I only buy big ticket items when I can really afford the train fare. Marcus

22nd July 2006, 10:21 AM	#6
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 748	ALBACETE DAGGER I THINK IS A MODERN DAGGER, I HAVE ONE LIKE THIS, BUT WITHOUT MARKS, IT´S THE SAME. AND THE PRICE IS TOO LOW , IN TOLEDO AN AUTENTIC ALBACETE DAGGER COST MORE OF 300 EUROS. IT´S ONLY MY OPINION. THANKS CARLOS Attached Images

23rd July 2006, 07:58 AM	#7
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	The cut outs Does anyone know what the purpose was for the cut-outs in the blades of these daggers? Marcus

20th July 2006, 08:33 AM	#1
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 685	Hi Marcus, Not2sharp has summed it up pretty neatly. It is a dagger in the Albacete pattern, but its date of manufacture is a puzzle. If the inserts are indeed synthetic, as you suspect, (the handle looks too white to be bone) then that would date is as post WWI and daggers such as your were still being manufactured as late as 1960 for the tourist trade. I also find that "1870" highly suspect, and by way of comment can add that the practice of falsifying dates of manufacture as well as brands was not uncommon amongst Spanish cutlers. The all too ubiquitous "Toledo" can be found in any number of junk Spanish navajas, knives and swords, being a generic brand intended to beguile tourists, trading on the justly famous reputation of the sword blades manufactured in that city before the 20th cntry. I could not identify the logo-brand from my books Is the blade hardened? Cheers Chris