cannonballs....

Jim McDougall · 6th March 2025, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I seem to remember seeing 20 years ago a couple of these mill balls for auction on eBay purported to be wootz cakes.

The wootz cake mysteries, really brings back the old days

M ELEY · 10th March 2025, 01:57 AM

Here's a few from my collection. The large one is a 6 -pounder reportedly from the Charleston, SC area circa 1770's. The 6 pounders were used by both the Continentals and the Red Coats.

Also in the picture is my chainshot piece, which I had suggested these types posted by Cel7 might still be some sort of unusual shot. I have seen balls with the chain all the way through the ball and bolted to the other end. Likewise, there were early spike shot from the Elizabethan period with a round ball and spikes projecting through it front and back that combustable material could be wrapped around and set alight. This is just guesswork without provenance for any of the auction items presented by Cel7.

And, of course, I have two round stone balls presented to me as 'stone cannon balls' in this pic. Cannonballs made of stone did exist from around 1400 up to the English Civil War (mid-17th). They came in a variety of sizes much like cannon and musket shot of the same period. Stone balls were particularly effective on ships, as they could easily punch a hole through a rival vessel's hull, immediately shattering into a lagrage of deadly projectiles. Cheaper to use than iron at the time (and not requiring a forge to make!), they were time-consuming to create and became obsolete as ships' hulls became thicker into the late 17th c. Many stone balls are listed as 'cannonballs', but turn out to be decorative garden balls or Native American gaming balls, etc. (To dispel one rumor, there were never perfectly round 'mill balls' used to imitate these. Iron mill balls, on the other hand, do mimic real cannon balls). So...I'm not sure if I have the real deal or not. My two are hand-carved and very old. They do very much resemble specimens found off of County Antrim, Ireland, where the Spanish Armada broke up.

M ELEY · 10th March 2025, 02:21 AM

Here's an early grenado, perhaps, 1600's. It is roughly the size of a plum. Gilkerson, in Boarders Away II, says that these came in two sizes. Mine appears to be an 'Army' type, whereas naval grenados were larger, perhaps the size of a large orange. I know there are other shells with powder that were used like hand grenades, but the standard pattern 'easy to throw' types are the previously mentioned sizes. Mine has the distinction of still being filled to the rim with old congealed powder and shot (you can look down the hole and see it). As black powder can last for centuries, I keep this item in this highly protective plastic casing to shelter me if it explodes (

)! Actually, it is just to keep it dry. It is stored in a shadowy corner of my cabinet and I've used melted candle wax to 'seal it' as I have every belief that it is still techniquely explosive. But I won't go throwing it in any campfires any time soon!

M ELEY · 10th March 2025, 02:38 AM

Here we have a 2 pounder cannonball, reportedly dug locally at the Yadkin River (near my home) where a skirmish during the Revolutionary War took place at the Battle of the Shallow Ford. The Americans liked these smaller ordenance as they could be fired from small cannons called 'grasshoppers' (as they jumped off the grass with firing!) that could be pulled behind a single draft horse to position it. Incidentally, 2 pounders were also used in swival guns placed on gunwales to rake enemy boats approaching and on wall swivels on forts. The Lewis and Clark expedition had a small swivel gun mounted on their front batteau as they made their way on their historic voyage.

M ELEY · 11th March 2025, 02:49 PM

Forgot to mention that these 'grenadoes' where sometimes lit and then shot out of small mortars before they exploded, adding greatly to the distance they could be 'delivered'!!

Jim McDougall · 11th March 2025, 06:15 PM

These are incredible displays Capn, the Eley Maritime Museum!!!

It is amazing to see these items together in context like this. I dont know much on ordnance but I know its an area you have studied intently.
Would powder inside these be inert or completely gone after time ?

M ELEY · 11th March 2025, 07:03 PM

Hello Cap'n Jim! Good to hear from you! Black powder apparently has a very long shelf life and it is the reason that collectors have to be very careful if there is still powder in these shells. Most of the time, it gets washed away or mixes with earth and becomes inert. That being said, there have been people injured or even killed when dealing with these. The small grenado I posted is the only item I have that I know still has powder present. Years ago, I owned a very old coehorn mortar shell that someone plugged the hole with lead. Was it inert? I never found out, which is a good thing! Sold it a few years later. I know there have been places in Europe where old mortar shells from the 18th and earlier are found and the bomb squad is usually called in to safely detonate them.

Here's the sad story of a colletor who wasn't so lucky-

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24441427

10th March 2025, 01:57 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	More munitions... Here's a few from my collection. The large one is a 6 -pounder reportedly from the Charleston, SC area circa 1770's. The 6 pounders were used by both the Continentals and the Red Coats. Also in the picture is my chainshot piece, which I had suggested these types posted by Cel7 might still be some sort of unusual shot. I have seen balls with the chain all the way through the ball and bolted to the other end. Likewise, there were early spike shot from the Elizabethan period with a round ball and spikes projecting through it front and back that combustable material could be wrapped around and set alight. This is just guesswork without provenance for any of the auction items presented by Cel7. And, of course, I have two round stone balls presented to me as 'stone cannon balls' in this pic. Cannonballs made of stone did exist from around 1400 up to the English Civil War (mid-17th). They came in a variety of sizes much like cannon and musket shot of the same period. Stone balls were particularly effective on ships, as they could easily punch a hole through a rival vessel's hull, immediately shattering into a lagrage of deadly projectiles. Cheaper to use than iron at the time (and not requiring a forge to make!), they were time-consuming to create and became obsolete as ships' hulls became thicker into the late 17th c. Many stone balls are listed as 'cannonballs', but turn out to be decorative garden balls or Native American gaming balls, etc. (To dispel one rumor, there were never perfectly round 'mill balls' used to imitate these. Iron mill balls, on the other hand, do mimic real cannon balls). So...I'm not sure if I have the real deal or not. My two are hand-carved and very old. They do very much resemble specimens found off of County Antrim, Ireland, where the Spanish Armada broke up. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 10th March 2025 at 02:23 AM.

10th March 2025, 02:21 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	A 'grenado' Here's an early grenado, perhaps, 1600's. It is roughly the size of a plum. Gilkerson, in Boarders Away II, says that these came in two sizes. Mine appears to be an 'Army' type, whereas naval grenados were larger, perhaps the size of a large orange. I know there are other shells with powder that were used like hand grenades, but the standard pattern 'easy to throw' types are the previously mentioned sizes. Mine has the distinction of still being filled to the rim with old congealed powder and shot (you can look down the hole and see it). As black powder can last for centuries, I keep this item in this highly protective plastic casing to shelter me if it explodes ()! Actually, it is just to keep it dry. It is stored in a shadowy corner of my cabinet and I've used melted candle wax to 'seal it' as I have every belief that it is still techniquely explosive. But I won't go throwing it in any campfires any time soon! Attached Images

10th March 2025, 02:38 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	A 2 pounder cannonball Here we have a 2 pounder cannonball, reportedly dug locally at the Yadkin River (near my home) where a skirmish during the Revolutionary War took place at the Battle of the Shallow Ford. The Americans liked these smaller ordenance as they could be fired from small cannons called 'grasshoppers' (as they jumped off the grass with firing!) that could be pulled behind a single draft horse to position it. Incidentally, 2 pounders were also used in swival guns placed on gunwales to rake enemy boats approaching and on wall swivels on forts. The Lewis and Clark expedition had a small swivel gun mounted on their front batteau as they made their way on their historic voyage. Attached Images Last edited by M ELEY; 11th March 2025 at 02:31 AM.

11th March 2025, 02:49 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Forgot to mention that these 'grenadoes' where sometimes lit and then shot out of small mortars before they exploded, adding greatly to the distance they could be 'delivered'!!

11th March 2025, 06:15 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	These are incredible displays Capn, the Eley Maritime Museum!!! It is amazing to see these items together in context like this. I dont know much on ordnance but I know its an area you have studied intently. Would powder inside these be inert or completely gone after time ?

11th March 2025, 07:03 PM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello Cap'n Jim! Good to hear from you! Black powder apparently has a very long shelf life and it is the reason that collectors have to be very careful if there is still powder in these shells. Most of the time, it gets washed away or mixes with earth and becomes inert. That being said, there have been people injured or even killed when dealing with these. The small grenado I posted is the only item I have that I know still has powder present. Years ago, I owned a very old coehorn mortar shell that someone plugged the hole with lead. Was it inert? I never found out, which is a good thing! Sold it a few years later. I know there have been places in Europe where old mortar shells from the 18th and earlier are found and the bomb squad is usually called in to safely detonate them. Here's the sad story of a colletor who wasn't so lucky- https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24441427