Ottoman silver shamshir sword

toaster5sqn · 19th February 2025, 08:00 PM

Is it just me or has it been disassembled at some point and put back together with the quillons inverted.

Robert

serdar · 20th February 2025, 12:09 AM

Probably Greece, but allso could be from Montenegro, Kotor area, year, latin initials, and eagle like Zeta state had and Crnojević family, ofcourse not from time, but more like memento.
But im allways suspicious with engravings on weapons, they are wery easy to do and age, i mean more detailed ones not plain ones.

serdar · 20th February 2025, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toaster5sqn

Is it just me or has it been disassembled at some point and put back together with the quillons inverted.

Robert

I think whole crossguard is a replace, not original ottoman one.

eftihis · 20th February 2025, 01:37 PM

Hello, and thank you all for your comments! Congratulations to "Serdar" for his observation regarding the crossguard! Having discussed about the sword in the last few days with knowledgeable friends, some facts have been revealed and some conclusions were made. The sword is a late mid to late 19th century piece, and not from 1821. The evidence for this are the tugra stamps that exist on every part of the silverwork, except the crossguard. The tugra looks like Abdülmecid, and it mentions 20 years after its reign so the date of manufacture is 1859. The crossguard is old, but does not have a tugra (it should have one) and does not fit perfectly plus has been place the opposite way arround! So my conclusion is that the sword aquired during one of the Greek-Turkish wars (1866 Cretan rebellion, 1897 war or most likely balkan wars (1912-13). The new owner engraved nicely on the scabbard his initials and the double headed eagle. This is going very well with the Greek beliefs of the time for the resurrection of the Byzantine empire. Latter, who knows when, the crossguard was lost. The sword eventually went for sale. The "antique shop owner" replaced the missing guard from his shop's spare parts with an other ottoman guard, that had the naive engraving of the cross and the date 1822 on it. He was not a warrior so he didnt care or noticed that he placed the guard the opposite side, that is not convinient for handling. This must have happened in 1960-70, since it was in the family of the owner for some decades, bought by his father, now deceased.

19th February 2025, 08:00 PM	#1
toaster5sqn Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: New Zealand Posts: 74	Is it just me or has it been disassembled at some point and put back together with the quillons inverted. Robert

20th February 2025, 12:09 AM	#2
serdar Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 123	Probably Greece, but allso could be from Montenegro, Kotor area, year, latin initials, and eagle like Zeta state had and Crnojević family, ofcourse not from time, but more like memento. But im allways suspicious with engravings on weapons, they are wery easy to do and age, i mean more detailed ones not plain ones.

20th February 2025, 01:37 PM	#4
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Hello, and thank you all for your comments! Congratulations to "Serdar" for his observation regarding the crossguard! Having discussed about the sword in the last few days with knowledgeable friends, some facts have been revealed and some conclusions were made. The sword is a late mid to late 19th century piece, and not from 1821. The evidence for this are the tugra stamps that exist on every part of the silverwork, except the crossguard. The tugra looks like Abdülmecid, and it mentions 20 years after its reign so the date of manufacture is 1859. The crossguard is old, but does not have a tugra (it should have one) and does not fit perfectly plus has been place the opposite way arround! So my conclusion is that the sword aquired during one of the Greek-Turkish wars (1866 Cretan rebellion, 1897 war or most likely balkan wars (1912-13). The new owner engraved nicely on the scabbard his initials and the double headed eagle. This is going very well with the Greek beliefs of the time for the resurrection of the Byzantine empire. Latter, who knows when, the crossguard was lost. The sword eventually went for sale. The "antique shop owner" replaced the missing guard from his shop's spare parts with an other ottoman guard, that had the naive engraving of the cross and the date 1822 on it. He was not a warrior so he didnt care or noticed that he placed the guard the opposite side, that is not convinient for handling. This must have happened in 1960-70, since it was in the family of the owner for some decades, bought by his father, now deceased.